Angry Alonso says race 'manipulated'

[Suzie]

Maybe it was an angry Fernando fan trying to hit Lewis on the noggin

[Tifosi]

should have hit him really. Pretty big target after all

[RedDragon]

I know many people are concerned about the time it took to investigate. I wonder though if they weren't busy at the time looking at Webber's accident first. Does anyone know if anything has been said about this?

[996 GT1 Lover]

I'm really sick of this kind of stuff happening. I'm ready to stop watching F1 altogether and stick to MotoGP.

[Aldai]

That was totally manipulated. Coincidence, the 2 Ferrari cars escorted by safety cars, and if Alonso had not spoken in radio, Hamilton would not have received neither the ridiculous penalty that have been placed. Alonso was in 3º position about 2 seconds of Hamilton and one's end ninth and the other second! Incredible....

Anyway, we will be back to the war at Silverstone! FORZA FERRARI

[Brakefade]

That was totally manipulated. Coincidence, the 2 Ferrari cars escorted by safety cars, and if Alonso had not spoken in radio, Hamilton would not have received neither the ridiculous penalty that have been placed. Alonso was in 3º position about 2 seconds of Hamilton and one's end ninth and the other second! Incredible....

Anyway, we will be back to the war at Silverstone! FORZA FERRARI

And I hope at Silverstone we learn our lesson and throw the rule book out the window.

1. Full speed in and out of the pits.
   
2. If the SC is deployed pass it and race full blast to be the first one to pit.
   
3. If the marshalls deploy a yellow, ignore it and pretend it's green.
   
4. If we're leading the pack behind the safety car constantly brake hard down to 5 MPH to mess everyone behind us up and hopefully end someone's day.
   
5. When someone wants to pass us weave like we're avoiding land mines and mortar shells.
   
6. As soon as the first red light turns on at the start, take off and start the race. The drive through won't make a difference, even a stop and go won't make a difference.
   
7. When someone beats us in the pit (despite going in full speed), shove them into the wall or the mechanics area. Hopefully they'll run over a wheel gun.

[mad_ani]

That was totally manipulated. Coincidence, the 2 Ferrari cars escorted by safety cars, and if Alonso had not spoken in radio, Hamilton would not have received neither the ridiculous penalty that have been placed. Alonso was in 3º position about 2 seconds of Hamilton and one's end ninth and the other second! Incredible....

Anyway, we will be back to the war at Silverstone! FORZA FERRARI

Do you think the stewards listen to the drivers radio comments to start investigations...apart from the case of team orders.....I think NOT..

Next race stewards wil have special radio calls from Alonso for looking into investigations

[Greig]

The drivers can speak directly to Charlie if they wish, Webber has done it previously, so yes team radio can be used.

[mad_ani]

The drivers can speak directly to Charlie if they wish, Webber has done it previously, so yes team radio can be used.

Yes, it has happened before, but can drivers ersuade the stewards to start an ivestigation during a race??

[crewskas]

Sorry, I posted somewhere else, but here I wanted to:

It was 2006, in the GP2 race in Imola, and Lewis overtook the safety car after falsely thinking he was being waved through when in fact it was waving through the Campos cars ahead of him. Lewis was leading the race at that time and should have stayed behind the safety car. His penalty? A black flag and disqualification from the race.

By the way, a guy in his blog which he is known as insider of F1 for many things (he has connections in many teams), has sent some mails to Charlie and FIA asking clarifications about how stewards handle multiple investigations (lewis and 9 cars).

[Ant Raikkonen]

Trouble??? That's something 10 year olds get in to. We'll be calling for Ferrari to smack his botty next. You always know where you are with someone who speaks their mind. The PC brigade on the other hand... They say stuff equally bad, but prefer to do it behind your back like cowards. The world needs more Fernandos. Fewer Lewis's.

Totally agreed.
It really winds me up when Hamilton conveniently "can't remember" stuff in the race, like passing the SC for example. What a BS master. Please DO NOT insult our intelligence!

I tell you what, i loved it (after qually?) when Hamilton went to shake Alonso's hand and Alonso just completely blanked him . Brilliant. You see, i like people like that. They don't hide how they feel about someone, rather than being a fake. I try to be like that myself. People may see it as moody or ignorant but i'd rather be straight like that, rather than acting.
I was debating with someone at work (a "you MUST support English drivers/teams type person") about that incident and his thoughts are that FA is a "spoilt Spanish brat who still sulks over 2007 when he got beat".

What's his nationality got to do with anything?
Yeah, LH really thrashed him in 2007 didn't he.

[Scuderialol]

Alonso is angry just because he can't win the championship on his first year in ferrari, like Kimi Raikkonen did.

[Ant Raikkonen]

^^ Another wind-up merchant. The user name's a bit vague though, so i guess you could've played the game for a little while.

[epiclyaddicted]

And I hope at Silverstone we learn our lesson and throw the rule book out the window.

1. Full speed in and out of the pits.
   
2. If the SC is deployed pass it and race full blast to be the first one to pit.
   
3. If the marshalls deploy a yellow, ignore it and pretend it's green.
   
4. If we're leading the pack behind the safety car constantly brake hard down to 5 MPH to mess everyone behind us up and hopefully end someone's day.
   
5. When someone wants to pass us weave like we're avoiding land mines and mortar shells.
   
6. As soon as the first red light turns on at the start, take off and start the race. The drive through won't make a difference, even a stop and go won't make a difference.
   
7. When someone beats us in the pit (despite going in full speed), shove them into the wall or the mechanics area. Hopefully they'll run over a wheel gun.

Amen to that!

[Aldai]

And I hope at Silverstone we learn our lesson and throw the rule book out the window.

1. Full speed in and out of the pits.
   
2. If the SC is deployed pass it and race full blast to be the first one to pit.
   
3. If the marshalls deploy a yellow, ignore it and pretend it's green.
   
4. If we're leading the pack behind the safety car constantly brake hard down to 5 MPH to mess everyone behind us up and hopefully end someone's day.
   
5. When someone wants to pass us weave like we're avoiding land mines and mortar shells.
   
6. As soon as the first red light turns on at the start, take off and start the race. The drive through won't make a difference, even a stop and go won't make a difference.
   
7. When someone beats us in the pit (despite going in full speed), shove them into the wall or the mechanics area. Hopefully they'll run over a wheel gun.

+10000!!!

[RedRebel40]

lol if Schumacher did this he would be given black flag

[MarlboroFA]

Totally agreed.
It really winds me up when Hamilton conveniently "can't remember" stuff in the race, like passing the SC for example. What a BS master. Please DO NOT insult our intelligence!

I tell you what, i loved it (after qually?) when Hamilton went to shake Alonso's hand and Alonso just completely blanked him . Brilliant. You see, i like people like that. They don't hide how they feel about someone, rather than being a fake. I try to be like that myself. People may see it as moody or ignorant but i'd rather be straight like that, rather than acting.
I was debating with someone at work (a "you MUST support English drivers/teams type person") about that incident and his thoughts are that FA is a "spoilt Spanish brat who still sulks over 2007 when he got beat".

What's his nationality got to do with anything?
Yeah, LH really thrashed him in 2007 didn't he.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000
two faced pigs smile in your face to then stab you in your back....what you see is what you get with me......

[Suzie]

I tell you what, i loved it (after qually?) when Hamilton went to shake Alonso's hand and Alonso just completely blanked him .

Ooh I must have missed that! Will have to re-watch it.

[Stormsearcher]

Isnt this the second time in 3 races Lewser has come up with.. "oh i didnt see who was coming on my side and suddenly i am alongside him".... comment? I think it was earlier about alonso being alongside in the pitlane and now the SC.
How much longer are the FIA going to believe this BS. He is most political of all drivers.. ever. A rotten sneak.

[Vittorio]

What's with the nationality bashing? I am Scottish not British not English, Ferrari is not about nations, keep a lid on it

Dude, if you're Scottish you are British, whether you like it or not...since 1701 in fact...LOL

Become a real nation and then you've earned the right to get all snooty about being called British, okay...

Sorry, but you so had that coming to you...

As for your point about the whole 'British' thing, it's nonsense, and you should know that. The British press is heavily critical of Ferrari at any given time, and in the UK media it seems Hamboy and McCheaters can do no wrong. They are as partisan about the British drivers and British teams as the Italian media is partisan about Ferrari.

Nothing annoys me more than any British journalist coming over all sanctimonious and pukka pukka 'objective', when the British press at all levels is amongst the most jingoistic and nationalistic of any on the planet. It's a farce and hypocritical.

Yes, there are Ferrari supporters from all over the world, of course. But Ferrari is first and foremost an Italian team - with everything, both good and bad, that goes with that.

I'm often amazed at how many people, even some Ferrari supporters included, so lose the fact that Ferrari is an intrinsically Italian team, even with all the foreign influences therein. And, yes, that does shape the team and it does make the whole 'nation' thing actually quite important to a certain extent.

[Vittorio]

Brilliant!!!

And I hope at Silverstone we learn our lesson and throw the rule book out the window.

1. Full speed in and out of the pits.
   
2. If the SC is deployed pass it and race full blast to be the first one to pit.
   
3. If the marshalls deploy a yellow, ignore it and pretend it's green.
   
4. If we're leading the pack behind the safety car constantly brake hard down to 5 MPH to mess everyone behind us up and hopefully end someone's day.
   
5. When someone wants to pass us weave like we're avoiding land mines and mortar shells.
   
6. As soon as the first red light turns on at the start, take off and start the race. The drive through won't make a difference, even a stop and go won't make a difference.
   
7. When someone beats us in the pit (despite going in full speed), shove them into the wall or the mechanics area. Hopefully they'll run over a wheel gun.

[Vittorio]

TROLL

I'll second that - TROLL indeed

[Vittorio]

Trouble??? That's something 10 year olds get in to. We'll be calling for Ferrari to smack his botty next. You always know where you are with someone who speaks their mind. The PC brigade on the other hand... They say stuff equally bad, but prefer to do it behind your back like cowards. The world needs more Fernandos. Fewer Lewis's.

Brilliant post - totally agreed!

Absolutely - more people who speak their minds and less of these ass-kissing corporate hacks (read: Lewis and his ilk) who 'say all the right things' like the hypocritical Stepford Wives that they are...

[Vittorio]

good point. That was a very very risky stunt, F1 wouldnt want another dreadfull accident like Tom Pryce's. RIP Tom.

Thought Charlie was going to put SC out. How did that bottle get there? Is Bernie going to take action on the organisers for that? he would if happen here at Silverstone or Spa or even Interlagos.

So true. I too was squirming when I saw that marshall sprint to pick up that bottle and immediately thought of poor Tom Pryce. Madness that they allowed that.

In fact, I was at that fateful South African Grand Prix at Kyalami in 1977. We were sat just at Crowthorne Corner and saw Tom Pryce's Shadow barreling down the main straight and literally launch itself over Jacques Laffite's Ligier, before crashing into the barriers right near us. Really horrible.

[crewskas]

By the way,
have you read the "excuse" of Mark Hughes regarding the delay?
Okay, time to laugh people:

‘In determining whether an offence had been committed he had a few key difficulties. There was no timekeeping loop at that part of the track, so the evidence was going to rely on footage and the transponders of each car – Hamilton’s and the safety car – as they crossed the safety car line.

‘The in-car footage from Hamilton was far from decisive in that it was such a close call that the angle of the view could not support a conclusion. He then ordered aerial footage from the official Formula 1 Management helicopter – and this took some time to be found.

‘The complication of the transponders in the two cars was that they were almost certainly at differing lengths from the frontal extremities of each car, so Whiting was seeking this information too. Only once he had all this compiled did he feel confident in confirming that an offence had taken place.

‘At this point, he could have chosen a harsher penalty that would have had a greater detrimental effect on Hamilton’s position. But the precedent for this offence is a drive-through. It is not in the regulations, but is at the race director’s discretion.’

Regarding the bold, why I think that we saw a lot, lot earlier the aerial replay much much earlier than the punishment?
Oh wait a minute, probably because he's writing BS...!

[crewskas]

By the way,
have you read the "excuse" of Mark Hughes regarding the delay?
Okay, time to laugh people:

‘In determining whether an offence had been committed he had a few key difficulties. There was no timekeeping loop at that part of the track, so the evidence was going to rely on footage and the transponders of each car – Hamilton’s and the safety car – as they crossed the safety car line.

‘The in-car footage from Hamilton was far from decisive in that it was such a close call that the angle of the view could not support a conclusion. He then ordered aerial footage from the official Formula 1 Management helicopter – and this took some time to be found.

‘The complication of the transponders in the two cars was that they were almost certainly at differing lengths from the frontal extremities of each car, so Whiting was seeking this information too. Only once he had all this compiled did he feel confident in confirming that an offence had taken place.

‘At this point, he could have chosen a harsher penalty that would have had a greater detrimental effect on Hamilton’s position. But the precedent for this offence is a drive-through. It is not in the regulations, but is at the race director’s discretion.’

Regarding the bold, why I think that we saw a lot, lot earlier the aerial replay than the punishment?
Oh wait a minute, probably because he's writing BS...!

[Hermann]

Of course. Whiting is still using paper and pencil in the races. Back to the roots.

Only once he had all this compiled did he feel confident in confirming that an offence had taken place.

LOL sorry but too much is too much....

10 if <morenin> go to 20, if <alonso> go to 30, if <someone_else> go to 40
20 let pass and go to 50
30 open "worst_sanction.exe", if <doesn't exist> create one
40 if <same infraction morenin> let pass and go to 50, if not open "sanction.exe"
50 End

*copyright by Monza06*

[epiclyaddicted]

To be honest, I personally think Mark Hughes is one of the more unbiased journalists. At least he made an attempt to put up both sides of the argument, rather than just slating Alonso.

May be there is a little bit of anti-Ferrari mentality within the FIA - I'm saying may be, I don't know, I'm sure Jean Todt wouldn't like to be blamed for favouring his old employer - but I don't really buy into the idea of the race being "manipulated". The FIA just made a mess of their own rules, nothing more. Problem is, as Mark Hughes said in that article, the regulations do not state a clear penalty for the offence of overtaking the SC. It's under the race director's discretion. May be that needs to be changed, and there needs to be clear wording in the regulations saying that the penalty for overtaking the SC is black flag and disqualification. Leaving it up to the race director's discretion is what created the problems last Sunday.

Now that the precedent has been set - by Lewis getting a simple drive-through for this offence - give me one reason why every other car from here onwards would not be tempted to ignore the SC and blast round to the pits at full racing speed, make up some time, and then just take the drive-through? That just doesn't spoil the racing, but it can be downright dangerous. That's what FOTA and the FIA need to look at when they sit down for that meeting before Silverstone.

[crewskas]

Now that the precedent has been set - by Lewis getting a simple drive-through for this offence - give me one reason why every other car from here onwards would not be tempted to ignore the SC and blast round to the pits at full racing speed, make up some time, and then just take the drive-through? That just doesn't spoil the racing, but it can be downright dangerous. That's what FOTA and the FIA need to look at when they sit down for that meeting before Silverstone.

One good reason, is because the next time, the penalty will be imposed immediately...
And this I think is the problem. Not the type of penalty, but the delay of the penalty.
I mean, come on.
Just an aerial replay is what you need. Play, pause when SC reaches the line. Is he braking the rules?
Penalty immediately. From the incident until the penalty, there was 50 minutes delay....50!

[mad_ani]

Looking for this for a while...DID ANY FORMER F1 driver JOIN THE STEWARDS PANEL for VALENCIA??? If so who???

It is now reported that charlie took a while to get the ariel footage.....All we saw was the onboard footage from LH.