Massa: More penalties for Hamilton

[aroutis]

So we have now turned a corner where members defending a Ferrari team member are the bad ones?

I am seriously shocked if that is where this forum is.....and rather speechless

This was a can of worms that opened with the bashing of Kimi while he was still a Ferrari driver to be honest... Magnums and all that.

I am sorry but that really is the case.

But I agree with you, this needs to stop, whether people like it or not, Massa IS a Ferrari driver, and until that changes , they can suck it up or leave.

[de Portago]

This is onboard with Hamilton as he crashes into Massa.

The footage carries on through into the tunnel.

Well having seen this video, I'll have to believe Massa when he says that the could not control the car into the tunnel, because the damage to the left sidepod and wind deflectors was massive. It also seems that he could well have backed off when noticing that the car would not turn, but to no avail given the speed that he was carrying when he reached the dirty side of the tunnel. It seems all too obvious that even if he had made it through the tunnel he could not have finished the race given the damage to his Ferrari. Therefore I apologize for having questioned his good judgement in not backing off.

Obviously with race bullies like Ramilton you can never win: you can't but defend you position and when you do then you end up like Massa or Maldonado. Oh bugger!

[Stormsearcher]

I don't think Lewis should have been penalised for the tunnel incident. Him and Massa were side by side and Lewis had the better line through the tunnel, Massa went onto the marbles and he crashed. Can't blame Lewis for that, they were racing and Massa lost out. In fact Massa should have known he was never going to make it through on the marbles. Lewis' move into the hairpin was a bit ambitious but the both came out of it ok. The move on Maldonado though was a clear penalty and it ruined a good race for Williams and Maldonado

Somehow i think the other way round is true. He was right to be penalised for damaging Massas race. That move was insane, he was never going to overtake massa at that point and he tried bullying massa into giving him the position. It didnt work and it ended up screwing massas car and his race.
With maldonado, i thot the move was a pretty good one. Its similar to the one he pulled on the chin. Only maldonado defended too aggressively and turned in too early. I dont think lewis shud have been penalised for that.

But for his racist remark (i dont know why the stewards should care in any case)... he shud be in big trouble. But lets see how it pans out.

[dr.k]

Footag of crash from multiple views.
Here you can see how ham rammed Felipe into Webers rear. After that you are just passenger when you are going to fastest turn of track with big hole in the nose.

[de Portago]

Footag of crash from multiple views.
Here you can see how ham rammed Felipe into Webers rear. After that you are just passenger when you are going to fastest turn of track with big hole in the nose.

Even DC and Eddie Jordan agree that it was a reckless move on the part of Hamilton. I don't think that there is any doubt about that at this point.

[sv_godspeed]

Well, if he backed off he could have ended the race in the points.

you tell me, guys, you're a racing driver and someone just rammed up your inside, damaged your car, pushed you wide where he knows you are at risk of a serious accident - you would just "back off and settle for the points". thats not my view of an F1 racing driver, i wouldnt even do that on the road if someone behaved like Lewis even without touching my car!

[theforce]

This last week sums up Lewis.

Last week in spain driving a race car equal to RB in race pace and couldn't overtake. Blames Schumi for block because he is German and Vettle's friend. Then blames STR because they are RB sister team. In Monaco blames Massa for qualifying and then his Team's strategy. Drove like he was in demolition derby in the race taking out Massa and Maldonado. Who knows, maybe had a part in Petrov crash? Then comes out saying both Massa & Maldonado turned on him and 5/6 races he's been to the stewards because he's black.

[de Portago]

you tell me, guys, you're a racing driver and someone just rammed up your inside, damaged your car, pushed you wide where he knows you are at risk of a serious accident - you would just "back off and settle for the points". thats not my view of an F1 racing driver, i wouldnt even do that on the road if someone behaved like Lewis even without touching my car!

Well I said that before watching the last video on this thread. There is no way that Massa could have ended the race with the damage sustained to his Ferrari. Having said this, I doubt that he did not back of when he got out of the racing line. Refraining from backing off could have resulted in a bigger accident and racing drivers do not crash if they can avoid it. We just saw the efects of crashing at the exit of that tunnel.

[Ken]

Don't worry Kenny I know you are only trying to fit in with the "groupie" hence the fact you try to talk all clever and educated. The hostility around here is mind blowing

Oh my after 50+ years of following Ferrari through the good times and the bad I am elevated to groupie

The only question I have is, When Alonso leaves us Will you ????? Please

I do not mean to offend ALL Alonso fans here, Just this one

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Oh my after 50+ years of following Ferrari through the good times and the bad I am elevated to groupie

The only question I have is, When Alonso leaves us Will you ????? Please

I do not mean to offend ALL Alonso fans here, Just this one

Ken - I have asked OldskoolF1 not to make personal remarks, so please can you refrain from doing so as well.

To all - We all are here for different reasons, whether you support the team, whether you support one driver in particular. But while we are here we all need to respect this is a Ferrari Forum, and that means showing a little bit of respect for the overall forum and its members no matter who you support. Making inflammatory comments about a driver just because you don't support him only serves to create tension with the members that do, likewise making constant derogatory comments about the team simply because your a frustrated driver fan only causes tension and friction with the members who support Ferrari as a team. Constructive criticism where it is due is acceptable, but criticism for the sake of it, or because you don't like a driver or team member is a bit petty in my humble opinion and doesn't add anything positive to the forum. We all are frustrated that the team is going through a tough time and not getting the results we would like at the moment, and we can deal with it in one of two ways....we can sit and moan on about it and bash the team and drivers and make everyone else feel as gloomy as we do, or we could pull together as a forum and make it a pleasant place to come and visit for news and to chat, a place to remember the good times, to look forward to what may come in future, and even may I dare add have some fun and make friends. This forum used to be a really fantastic place (still is underneath) I personally would like to see it back to its former glory where we all had some fun, and the only bashing that went on was for other teams.

[scuderiafan]

Ken - I have asked OldskoolF1 not to make personal remarks, so please can you refrain from doing so as well.

To all - We all are here for different reasons, whether you support the team, whether you support one driver in particular. But while we are here we all need to respect this is a Ferrari Forum, and that means showing a little bit of respect for the overall forum and its members no matter who you support. Making inflammatory comments about a driver just because you don't support him only serves to create tension with the members that do, likewise making constant derogatory comments about the team simply because your a frustrated driver fan only causes tension and friction with the members who support Ferrari as a team. Constructive criticism where it is due is acceptable, but criticism for the sake of it, or because you don't like a driver or team member is a bit petty in my humble opinion and doesn't add anything positive to the forum. We all are frustrated that the team is going through a tough time and not getting the results we would like at the moment, and we can deal with it in one of two ways....we can sit and moan on about it and bash the team and drivers and make everyone else feel as gloomy as we do, or we could pull together as a forum and make it a pleasant place to come and visit for news and to chat, a place to remember the good times, to look forward to what may come in future, and even may I dare add have some fun and make friends. This forum used to be a really fantastic place (still is underneath) I personally would like to see it back to its former glory where we all had some fun, and the only bashing that went on was for other teams.

imo, the forum is still great. but it will be as good as it used to be when ferrari starts winning. it is a little sad that some of us are a little 'fairweather' with all due respect, and this is true of any team in any sport.

like say, when McLaren in preseason, it was horrific there, and now it is fine.

i'm sure the team will start winning soon enough, and then the forum will return to what you miss.

[Corey]

So you mean that this forum does not tolerate flame wars? Not that I like patheticness or to make others feel bad, but once in a while it's kind of fun and hilarious to see someone crash and burn hard. Especially if he's made a complete @$$ out of himself. The movie can't finish any better by having this sort of ending being applied to such characters.

[Ken]

May I offer my applogies to anyone who was offended by my remarks.

It was not my intention to spoil the mood of this Forum for that I am sorry

[Suzie]

This last week sums up Lewis.

Last week in spain driving a race car equal to RB in race pace and couldn't overtake. Blames Schumi for block because he is German and Vettle's friend. Then blames STR because they are RB sister team. In Monaco blames Massa for qualifying and then his Team's strategy. Drove like he was in demolition derby in the race taking out Massa and Maldonado. Who knows, maybe had a part in Petrov crash? Then comes out saying both Massa & Maldonado turned on him and 5/6 races he's been to the stewards because he's black.

Ouch. Seeing it all written down like that really shows how much Lewis is melting down. I openly admit I am completely biased against him and will find fault with everything he does and pick holes in everything he says... but he is really losing his mind. Even the whole making Simon Fuller his manager thing - it's like he wants to be a big celeb rather than just a racing driver. Perhaps he needs to take some time out to concentrate on F1 rather than the celebrity girlfriend and glitzy lifestyle. It's like he's starting to believe all the hype about himself. Too many 'yes men' perhaps and not enough people to help him gain some perspective.

I think he's tying with Ryan Giggs for the 'Sportsman that's had the worst week' award.

[puto.havana]

Ouch. Seeing it all written down like that really shows how much Lewis is melting down. I openly admit I am completely biased against him and will find fault with everything he does and pick holes in everything he says... but he is really losing his mind. Even the whole making Simon Fuller his manager thing - it's like he wants to be a big celeb rather than just a racing driver. Perhaps he needs to take some time out to concentrate on F1 rather than the celebrity girlfriend and glitzy lifestyle. It's like he's starting to believe all the hype about himself. Too many 'yes men' perhaps and not enough people to help him gain some perspective.

I think he's tying with Ryan Giggs for the 'Sportsman that's had the worst week' award.

Agreed on the Simon Fuller point - yes he already manages other sportsmen (read negotiates the money and takes a rather healthy percentage of it for himself) but I don't understand why he is managing Lewis.

Lewis whilst outwardly confident he is probably like anyone else and needs that moral support and guidance behind the scenes. His Dad (when manager) and Ron Dennis fulfilled this role. How can Simon Fuller fulfill this role? Answer - he can't. At least the other sportsmen Simon Fuller represents have that moral support in coaches etc. I dunno, frankly I don't really care - not fussed if Lewis goes into meltdown. At least if he does I will give us something to laugh about.

Anyway back on topic - I am not sure what Massa means. At the end of the day Hamilton was punished for his on-track actions - he received the right penalty for his actions. The fact that the last one didn't cause him to lose position is just well how it panned out yesterday. No different to Alonso in Malaysia.

[Hornet]

Footag of crash from multiple views.
Here you can see how ham rammed Felipe into Webers rear. After that you are just passenger when you are going to fastest turn of track with big hole in the nose.

Good video of showing what happened

Massa was pretty much sandwiched between Lewis and a Torro Rosso. Lewis's contact pushed Massa into that TR, clipping part of his wings or nose off, while Lewis damage his other side of the car.

Its doubtful Massa could take a highspeed corner without massive understeer hence running wide. I'm just glad Massa's accident wasn't serious by the way he impacted the wall. Could have been ugly if he understeer and clip the barriers going into the swimming pool chicane

[Suzie]

IIRC, Brundle said something while Lewis was chasing Felipe about how he would think he wouldn't have as hard time passing Felipe as he did Michael. Maybe he thinks Felipe is easily bullied... it actually reminded me of this in Fuji 2008 -



I remember laughing because he thought he could barge his way past Felipe and failed. Anyway yesterday reminded me a wee bit of that.

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Ouch. Seeing it all written down like that really shows how much Lewis is melting down. I openly admit I am completely biased against him and will find fault with everything he does and pick holes in everything he says... but he is really losing his mind. Even the whole making Simon Fuller his manager thing - it's like he wants to be a big celeb rather than just a racing driver. Perhaps he needs to take some time out to concentrate on F1 rather than the celebrity girlfriend and glitzy lifestyle. It's like he's starting to believe all the hype about himself. Too many 'yes men' perhaps and not enough people to help him gain some perspective.

I think he's tying with Ryan Giggs for the 'Sportsman that's had the worst week' award.

I think your right Suzie, I think it was pretty much reflected in McLaren's post race team comments - the attitude was well that's Lewis, he is passionate and always giving it 100% and sometimes he will drive people off the road, bless him kind of attitude. He needs a strong team manager really to pull him up on his behaviour and give him a good rollocking when he needs it...otherwise he will continue down this avenue of thinking he walks on water and can do no wrong and the stewards must be wrong....because he is Lewis. I can't help thinking McLaren probably pander too him a bit too much instead of being the employers and setting out what is acceptable behaviour. Just my humble opinion.

[Suzie]

Adam Cooper also said on Twitter that the stewards requested Lewis go to them to apologise - he didn't go off his own back as McLaren claimed I believe.

[Tifoso]

Give him a 1 race ban.

[Forzi]

IIRC, Brundle said something while Lewis was chasing Felipe about how he would think he wouldn't have as hard time passing Felipe as he did Michael. Maybe he thinks Felipe is easily bullied... it actually reminded me of this in Fuji 2008 -



I remember laughing because he thought he could barge his way past Felipe and failed. Anyway yesterday reminded me a wee bit of that.

I remember laughing at that incident the whole week after The video doesn't show the best part where when Lewis spun, he had to let over 10 other drivers past to get some space for turning around

Found a lil longer video with the whole waiting after the spin thing:

[Tifosi]

The comforting thing is that Lewis will never achieve his full potential as long as he is allowed to let his emotions and (what can only be described as) temper affect his ability to achieve it. This is good news for us because im sure the numpty will have burned out by 2016 and we probably wouldn't even want him until then.

I enjoy the excitement he brings to the sport but I cant stand people like him who allow arrogance to sully their natural talent to such a degree. This isn't just about racing, it's about Lewis himself. He crapped on his own dad - the man who got him the gig. As many have said, when you are surrounded by YES men, you end up losing any sense of your own place in what is essentially a team sport - not a playground for prima donnas!!!

Macca support him but he doesn't return the favour. Enjoy Uncle Ronald, your "creation" has come of age........

[REDARMYSOJA]

Give him a 1 race ban.

Agreed. I'd give him two, one for driving like an idiot and another for what he said afterwards.

I remember after Hockenheim in 08 Hamilton snickered at Massa and belittled him saying, "If it had been me he wouldn't have got past so easy." I said then that Massa is not going to be so easy to pass in the future for Lewis, and we saw it later that year at Japan, last year at Monza and now at Monaco.

Lewis has a habit of making derisive comments about other drivers, questioning Kimi's manhood, calling them monkeys. I say this is all coming back to haunt him now. These guys aren't going to lay down so easy, especially if they think they will be made fun of later. Lewis is now reaping what he sowed.

[Hermann]

When you raise a crow, one day it will hack your eyes out.

I only need to remember the day when Hamilton won the race in Oz in 2008. When he came out of the weighing room he had something in his hand that looked like coke- drinking out of the bottle. RD came out behind him and tried to take it out of his hand, and Hamilton tried to hit him for that. Had RD not taken his head away quickly, Ham would have probably knocked him out. RD was trying to show a laughing face, but you could clearly see he was not amused.

And then the scene on the podium, when he pushed Heidfeld out of his way almost knocking him over. Heidfeld definitely looked shocked, and actually Rosberg- who was on his other side and quickly moved out of the way- as well. Heidfeld is such a tiny guy- normally i'm not exactly a fan of him, but that was uncalled for.

I've seen many similar scenes being the reason for my negative oppinion about him, though he can be very entertaining as well. But sometimes i definitely fail to see the 'joke'.

[scuderiafan]

Agreed. I'd give him two, one for driving like an idiot and another for what he said afterwards.

I remember after Hockenheim in 08 Hamilton snickered at Massa and belittled him saying, "If it had been me he wouldn't have got past so easy." I said then that Massa is not going to be so easy to pass in the future for Lewis, and we saw it later that year at Japan, last year at Monza and now at Monaco.

Lewis has a habit of making derisive comments about other drivers, questioning Kimi's manhood, calling them monkeys. I say this is all coming back to haunt him now. These guys aren't going to lay down so easy, especially if they think they will be made fun of later. Lewis is now reaping what he sowed.

I remembered that, then this happened the next race.

[Rob]

Ouch. Seeing it all written down like that really shows how much Lewis is melting down. I openly admit I am completely biased against him and will find fault with everything he does and pick holes in everything he says... but he is really losing his mind. Even the whole making Simon Fuller his manager thing - it's like he wants to be a big celeb rather than just a racing driver. Perhaps he needs to take some time out to concentrate on F1 rather than the celebrity girlfriend and glitzy lifestyle. It's like he's starting to believe all the hype about himself. Too many 'yes men' perhaps and not enough people to help him gain some perspective.

I think he's tying with Ryan Giggs for the 'Sportsman that's had the worst week' award.

Until Sunday, i was never a fan, but would love to see him at Ferrari in future. But, now.... no way thankyou. He has shown the world and his young fans what he is really like. Spoilt brat. If it isnt how he likes, throws his toys out and blames everyone, apart from taking step back and looking at himself.

He has gotten to big for his own boots. He thinks he is untouchable and do what he likes. In that interview with BBC, he said "dont you want to watch ME race?" And said that people moan that no overtaking. Well, yeah we like see overtakes, but not desperate really late lunges up inside, thinking other drivers will give your ego the room.

Just concentrate on what you do best Lewis, not rapping, not celeb life style, not looking cool and gangster with your new yes your great homies. But driving.

[Tifosi]

I remembered that, then this happened the next race.

I watch that twice a month and it gives me goosebumps every time.

[Tifosi]

In that interview with BBC, he said "dont you want to watch ME race?"

Yes, that was a telling quote.

I also loved the way he said he was "going to keep his mouth shut" directly after he'd just alienated the whole of his sport and his team in front of a watching world. He reminds me of the kid at school that thought he was the best because he was good at sports but no-one liked him because he knew it - and that was his only redeeming feature

[Suzie]

I remembered that, then this happened the next race.

Magnificent

[scuderiafan]

Yes, that was a telling quote.

I also loved the way he said he was "going to keep his mouth shut" directly after he'd just alienated the whole of his sport and his team in front of a watching world. He reminds me of the kid at school that thought he was the best because he was good at sports but no-one liked him because he knew it - and that was his only redeeming feature

i thought that was really ironic, considering what he had just done.