2012 Canadian Grand Prix - Race thread

[wisepie]

I could have cried watching Felipe spin then Fernando being swallowed up by those whose tyres hadn't been so overworked trying to keep pace with Ham and Vettel. Yes, we want them to win but blaming everything on tyres isn't good enough and we need the points, so despite the explanations from the team, it was soul-destroying to watch. Good job it was Grosjean and Perez on the podium, though saying that, the pair of them could yet pose a serious threat as well as the usual contenders. Not a good day but suppose it could have been worse.

[Nick Singer]

I am amazed that everybody is getting so excited!

Yes, the car now seems to be a genuine challenger but, for a team like Ferrari, we should NEVER have been so far away at the start of the year!

The tyre strategy was abysmal! Alonso should have pitted as soon as Hamilton did and we'd have been very strong for 2nd or 3rd.

Hope we can kick a** in Valencia..and manage our tyres!

[stefa]

I am amazed that everybody is getting so excited!

Yes, the car now seems to be a genuine challenger but, for a team like Ferrari, we should NEVER have been so far away at the start of the year!

The tyre strategy was abysmal! Alonso should have pitted as soon as Hamilton did and we'd have been very strong for 2nd or 3rd.

Hope we can kick a** in Valencia..and manage our tyres!

+1

[racingbradley]

We cannot change yesterday's result no matter how much we moan & groan.
Hamiliton was really on form but what's happening to Button??? Uncle Ron was on site again so.................?????
It was a bad day at the office for us granted but the team need to put their best foot forward and limit mistakes to zero in the next 13 races.
At least the car looks racy atm
Valencia the reds will be the team to beat.

[sav_pap]

I think that because of the bad mood (because of our strategy) we forgot to mention the fantastic job done again from our mechanics and the pit stop times.
They managed to overtake hamilton and vettel during their (tragic) pitstop.
Bravo guys... Well done!!!

[stefa]

As NICK SINGER said, we are changing topics here!? First of all Ferrari shouldn't be so far away in the begging of the season. We were told, last year, that this season Ferrari will fight for win straight from first race. That didn't happen, so we were all focused on development of F2012 and catching the opposition. For every new part we were expecting that it will bring some or significant improvement for car, and it does slowly. Thanks to Pirelli tires, and field so close, FA is not that far in WDC as he would be if just any of his main competitors didn't made some mistakes too in early races. It is a pure miracle that FA is not drifting by 30+ points in WDC. Thank God to that, and other mistakes.
They were going for the win... Yeah right! It was obvious that LH is in another league and that his win was out of question, only if something mechanical happen or his driving mistake. Neither happen... So instead of covering SF, they gambled and trowed everything away! What an stupid decision to do! I agree that there are times when you need to react fast and gamble, but there has to be some percentage of knowing it will work. Yesterday there were ZERO chances their gamble could pay off. It is not that Ferrari used Pirelli tires yesterday for the first time, so they didn't know they are behaving after 10, 20, and even more laps. Once again stupid risk with no chances to pay off!
This season have 20 races, and yesterday it was only 7th race in calendar. It was not necessary to win yesterday, as it was obvious that LH will win and become 7th winner in 7th race. Which us good because different drivers are taking point in different races. Key for success this season, and you should not be GENIUS to come to that, is in consistency. Meaning finishing races on podium, if that not possible than finishing races in points.
Back in 1982 Mr. Keke Rosberg won his title with just one pole position and ONE WIN! But he had six podiums!
It is shame that FA needs to fight with crappy car, without a help of his team mate, with stupid decision from his team at pit wall, against all others.
I admit that I cannot remember, so feel free to remind me of some ingenious - during race strategy call - of these guys sitting there, after brains like Mr. Brown and Mr. Todt left Ferrari?! All I can remember are stupid, not think decision that were made in panic. Who will ever forget that one in last race of 2010 campaign?! That one will go into history as of of the most stupidest move in F1!
Now, every one will come on me saying that I am betrayer and bashing Ferrari, not true supporter, I don't mind. If it is easier for you guys to close eyes and not to face reality, how am I to tell you not to do that?
I am just looking reality with eyes wide open!
It was a stupid decision. Period! And it was so obvious, that they should pitted FA immediate lap after LH to preserve 2nd place.

[sav_pap]

Now, every one will come on me saying that I am betrayer and bashing Ferrari, not true supporter,

Your are not and you are saying the truth.... I agree with your comments...

[fronaldo]

do we will bring more update at valencia?

[sav_pap]

As far as I know there are some updates for valencia. I read it in a post of another member here.

[Brad-Ferrari]

Personally I don't understand all the negative comments regarding our strategy. I'm proud of Ferrari for taking an aggressive approach rather than being conservative. They didn't simply play it safe and hold second position but went for the win. Unfortunately it didn't work out, so what? It's not the end of the world and Alonso is only 2 points off the WDC leader.

[Greig]

Point is they did play it safe, they thought 2nd was safe as long as they stayed ahead of Seb, had Seb pitted when Lewis did then you can bet we would have as well. They just did not think the tyres would drop off so much and did not consider Grosjean and Perez a threat. Yes only 2 point of the lead, but should be 6 points in the lead, I know what I would rather have right now

[sav_pap]

Yes only 2 point of the lead,

And only 1 from Vettel.

[stefa]

"I was a little bit surprised to be honest that Ferrari and Red Bull appeared to have a small upside with quite a lot of risk with their strategy in my view," Whitmarsh said. "There are times when you can take a punt like that but I think the potential gain was quite small and the risk was quite large. I'm glad they did of course and I think the team did a great job today with running the race. I think Lewis is really on top form with these tyres, they're clearly difficult and he could turn them on. You could see at various times he held and controlled the gap with Fernando and if we prompted him a bit he could go purple [set fastest laps] and it was classic Lewis, very much in control of his pace and very much in control of the race as a consequence."

Once again, win was NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL yesterday, so they choose trade solid 2nd "outstanding" 5th! Nice mathematicians we have there on pit wall...

[Kingdom Hearts]

The main problem for me it's not if they should have pitted with Hamilton or not, the issue here is why the didn't reacted like RB did, it was clear that the strategy wasn't working, they should have pitted for the SS, there was nothing to lose at that point.

[hogo]

Yeah I liked this gamble as well, but couldn't stand how commentators were trashing us for it :/.

What worries me the most is that Lotus nurses it's tires way better than our car, it seems that RedBull is also quite kind on its tires. This is worrisome, we could lose championships cos of that ;/

[GamD]

grosjean made pit-stop at same lap as alonso

Grosjean did not have to race or defend had hard as Alonso.

[hogo]

Grosjean did not have to race or defend had hard as Alonso.

...and Alonso had to do that because car is too slow.

[sav_pap]

The main problem for me it's not if they should have pitted with Hamilton or not, the issue here is why the didn't reacted like RB did, it was clear that the strategy wasn't working, they should have pitted for the SS, there was nothing to lose at that point.

you are 100% right and also the team admitted it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100305

read 5th-10th line.

[sav_pap]

The whole F1 world laugh at us.... We gave them the right to do this...

[Hermann]

The whole F1 world laugh at us.... We gave them the right to do this...

Well they laughed a lot about Macca and Hamilton, and we too, so if you if you dish it out- you have to be able to take it

[Alessandra]

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formu...al-casino.aspx

Significant points in the team’s response above seem to me to be….

1. The decision for FA to try a one stop was a ‘team” decision i.e. Fernando was part of it, so it was not comparable to the 2010 final race. A thought which had crossed more minds than just mine, I think.
2. They now believe themselves to be competitive with their main rivals – for the first time this year. This is hopeful. Both drivers agree this, plus Pat Fry who is not a born optimist I’d guess!
3. All seem to agree that the one-stop strategy was not, in itself, a mistake, proved by 2 out of the 3 on the podium had worked it. Difference was that they had planned that strategy from the start, proving that it’s essential to know exactly when your tyres are going to drop off and stick to that, no matter what the rest of the field’s doing. Before the final 10 laps who would have foreseen Perez and Grosjean on the podium and not FA or SV? Timing is everything.
“(Stefano) added that ………..they obviously had work to do on tyre degradation (before Valencia).” There's your homework, guys.

[Brad-Ferrari]

The whole F1 world laugh at us.... We gave them the right to do this...

And McLaren have done the same for us. They've made far more costly errors than us this season.

I think the team deserves more support. Lets learn from this experience and move on.

[sav_pap]

"Domenicali predicts three-way fight for drivers' title"

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...ory/81228.html

Before Canada it was two - way fight. Unfortunately we let Ramilton come into our house. He was 13 points far back before Canada.

[Red passion]

I think Domenicali is right it is a three way fight for the title the men on the podium yesterday. other drivers like rosberg, RG, MW and kimi will all do well but i can't see them winning the title this year.

[FerrariF60]

And McLaren have done the same for us. They've made far more costly errors than us this season.

I think the team deserves more support. Lets learn from this experience and move on.

exactly, i bet the team learned from this really FAST and anyone can bet their bottom dollar that they WON"T be doing it again..

[Hornet]

What bothers me is that this mistake we made is similar to the last race in 2010. Back then, we were so focused on Webber that we did not take into account the other cars around us. In the end, Alonso got stuck behind all these slower cars along with Webber.

Here again, we were covering our position from Vettel, but completely forget about the other cars behind Vettel who were closing in fast, which I'm pretty sure was showing on the lap times. Even Vettel lost his position to Roman and Perez, and we followed suit.

[radosav]

What bothers me is that this mistake we made is similar to the last race in 2010. Back then, we were so focused on Webber that we did not take into account the other cars around us. In the end, Alonso got stuck behind all these slower cars along with Webber.

Here again, we were covering our position from Vettel, but completely forget about the other cars behind Vettel who were closing in fast, which I'm pretty sure was showing on the lap times. Even Vettel lost his position to Roman and Perez, and we followed suit.

after his second pit stop hamilton came out 1.7 sec in front of grosjean, so that means that alonso would be behind grosjean after his pit stop. ferrari knew that and decided that is better to stay 16 sec in front of grosjean who had only one pit stop at the same time when alonso had his. this was right call cause no one expected that tyres would die . if alonso's tyres weren't so bad grosjean wouldn't have chance and alonso would have been second.

[F2002]

We're up there with the top guys, and that's the most important thing.

Domenicali is now predicting a three-way fight for the championship, and that includes Alonso.

Things weren't as good a few weeks ago, now is the time to show our support and stop nagging about the mistake they made yesterday.

It's easy to speculate after the event, but during the race, staying out on the softs looked like a reasonable option. Until Vettel pitted at least.

[sav_pap]

after his second pit stop hamilton came out 1.7 sec in front of grosjean, so that means that alonso would be behind grosjean after his pit stop. ferrari knew that and decided that is better to stay 16 sec in front of grosjean who had only one pit stop at the same time when alonso had his. this was right call cause no one expected that tyres would die . if alonso's tyres weren't so bad grosjean wouldn't have chance and alonso would have been second.

The film "The Sudden Death of Rubber" has been played again with producer: LOTUS F1 Team and protegonist : Kimi Raikonnen.

[shamim179]

I think what happened here was that Ferrari opted to do a pit stop with Alonso after Hamilton had done his 1st pit stop to gain track position. During that time they were more likely going for a 2-stop strategy. But when Hamilton pitted again, Alonso took the lead with Vettel behind him. They then considered doing a 1-stop strategy. The flaw here was not sticking to the original strategy. If they wanted to go for a 1-stop strategy, they should have left Alonso out on the SS for longer. But they didn't because they reacted to Hamilton pitting. And when Alonso was leading for most of the race, they left him out to cover Vettel.

All in all, I think Ferrari went for a high-risk strategy when we would comfortably secured 2nd. Yes it isn't 1st, but 2nd place would have been a very good result and we would have been still leading the WDC. To attempt 1st when we could have been 2nd but with the risk of becoming 4th or 5th or even worse wasn't a gamble worth playing in my opinion. Look what happend to Kimi in a few races back (China I think). He was on for a podium finish but quickly fell back many places in the latter stage of the race because the team left him out on those used tyres for too long. Just not worth taking the risk.

I think it is a bit worrying that Ferrari have opted to go for such a strategy. It highlights their weaknesses when they have a fighting chance. However, overall the team have done a good job with strategies so far this year but it is concerning when you make a bad mistake. A mistake is a mistake but this one was a bad one.