German Grand Prix 2013 - Race thread

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:30

Originally Posted by NickEice

Hopefully our new 2nd driver will help defeat Red Bull next year.

LOL yeah changing the no2 to sit behind Alonso will really help, it's nothing to do with the car.

Who do you think we should get that would beat Seb as Massa and Alonso are not up to it.

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:30

I mean we make fun of Grosjean and Maldonado and Hamilton for being crash happy, but geeze 4 crashes since Monaco.

**Hornet** · 7th July 2013, 15:31

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

By the way, the rules are not changing "that much". Engines, lower noses and exhaust basicly behind the car. That's it. So we have to hope, that Red Bull's advantage is in those 3 areas.

That's a huge change actually. If you watched Massimo's live chat last Friday, he describe it as a new era in F1, he also said we're looking at slower pace in terms of seconds.

This year the car is all about channeling the exhaust gas to the diffuser. The sidepods are all designed for that purpose.So this is a huge aero design that will go away next year.

**Forzi** · 7th July 2013, 15:32

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

By the way, the rules are not changing "that much". Engines, lower noses and exhaust basicly behind the car. That's it. So we have to hope, that Red Bull's advantage is in those 3 areas.

Lower nose (and i mean as low as it can get), meaning the WHOLE aerodynamics of the car change (besides the very rear of the car), no more channeling air below the car, exhaust at the center of the back which means no blow diffusor or any way to use exhaust gasses(which i'd say was the strong RBR point), no coanda effect exhaust. No rear beam wing, which will again change back aerodynamics, bigger air intakes at the side of the car,. Absolutely every part of the car changes, besides the monkey seat which will most likely have a bigger role next year then today.

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:32

Originally Posted by NickEice

I mean we make fun of Grosjean and Maldonado and Hamilton for being crash happy, but geeze 4 crashes since Monaco.

Monaco was car issue no? and here looked the same.

**Italian Spirit** · 7th July 2013, 15:32

Ferrari F1 budget: over 200 m €.

Lotus f1 budget: less than 100 m €.

Question: what is the problem?

(Please don't answer that it is the same of Mercedes and McLaren, I know it but I don't care)

**ferrari1.8t** · 7th July 2013, 15:33

Originally Posted by DIEK

That was RedBull deliberately sabotaging Webbers stop so that he would come out behind Vettel, he was on pace to come out ahead. Probably told the mechanic "just get the gun stuck for a second", it backfired. They should be heavily fined for unsafe release of Webbers car and almost killing a camera man. Disgusting.

On to the next race, lets hope Ferrari can turn it around and pick up some points. I still have faith in our boys! Forza Ferrari!

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:33

Originally Posted by Greig

LOL yeah changing the no2 to sit behind Alonso will really help, it's nothing to do with the car.

Who do you think we should get that would beat Seb as Massa and Alonso are not up to it.

Well Alonso is up to it. Massa has yet again less than half Alonso's points. Massa could have come in 5th today. We'd be ahead of Mercedes if that was the case. He's over the hill. Lets bring in new blood. Next year is a clean start might as well start with new blood as well.

Hulkenberg is my pick. Boy has talent.

**wacc** · 7th July 2013, 15:33

Originally Posted by faloupas

We say our opinions,and we dont stop supporting this team.We are just talking about the truth...it is truth that clearly these years(2009-2013) are some lost years.I dont know what is wrong,and i dont think that this car has the power to give us WDC and WCC,despite Fernando's passion and team's efforts to improve it.
Remember that we are Ferrari.Ferrari it is not just a team,is a legend,is the history of f1.This situation must change quickly.

Yeah, your truth... Ferrari is mediocre, midfield car, Alonso deserves winning car, Ferrari has no pace, Domenicali is bad manager, Massa is bad driver, strategy always bad....

**Kyss4k** · 7th July 2013, 15:33

Originally Posted by Hornet

That's a huge change actually. If you watched Massimo's live chat last Friday, he describe it as a new era in F1, he also said we're looking at slower pace in terms of seconds.

This year the car is all about channeling the exhaust gas to the diffuser. The sidepods are all designed for that purpose.So this is a huge aero design that will go away next year.

The times will be slower mainly because of the low bhp engines. The change of the exhaust layout is big, I agree, but even now exhausts are nowhere near as effective as they were in 2011 and Red Bull is still dominating.

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:35

Originally Posted by Greig

Monaco was car issue no? and here looked the same.

Why does he have so many car issues? Always. He is not a technical driver. He is fast on determination but is not technical enough. Just like Hamilton he puts too much stress on the car and has these failures. You don't see this reliability problem happening to Alonso. It's because he's smooth, he's calculated. Massa is not. He brings a lot of the "bad luck" he has at it seems every race on himself.

**bonzo** · 7th July 2013, 15:36

The last 4 years Ferrari's strategy and tactics is based on 3 "strong" foundations:
1. Damage limitations
2. Vettel DNFs
3. Keep Massa on board to be sure of not winning WCC
Ferrari's technical team has its own strong foundation: "Downgrades instead of upgrades".
The team' PR strategy is also vary consistant - next race bla, bla, next season bla bla, wind tunnel bla bla, upgrades coming bla, bla, low temperature bla, bla, team sport bla, bla.

**bonzo** · 7th July 2013, 15:36

The last 4 years Ferrari's strategy and tactics is based on 3 "strong" foundations:
1. Damage limitations
2. Vettel DNFs
3. Keep Massa on board to be sure of not winning WCC
Ferrari's technical team has its own strong foundation: "Downgrades instead of upgrades".
The team' PR strategy is also vary consistant - next race bla, bla, next season bla bla, wind tunnel bla bla, upgrades coming bla, bla, low temperature bla, bla, team sport bla, bla.

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:36

Originally Posted by NickEice

Well Alonso is up to it. Massa has yet again less than half Alonso's points. Massa could have come in 5th today. We'd be ahead of Mercedes if that was the case. He's over the hill. Lets bring in new blood. Next year is a clean start might as well start with new blood as well.

Hulkenberg is my pick. Boy has talent.

So how would 4th and 5th help us beat Vettel?

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:37

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

The times will be slower mainly because of the low bhp engines. The change of the exhaust layout is big, I agree, but even now exhausts are nowhere near as effective as they were in 2011 and Red Bull is still dominating.

People don't think the times will slow much. There will be much more torque with the electric. If we have traction issues next year we will be in for a long season. The team that can harness that Torque out of low speed corners will be very successful next year.

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:37

Originally Posted by NickEice

Why does he have so many car issues? Always. He is not a technical driver. He is fast on determination but is not technical enough. Just like Hamilton he puts too much stress on the car and has these failures. You don't see this reliability problem happening to Alonso. It's because he's smooth, he's calculated. Massa is not. He brings a lot of the "bad luck" he has at it seems every race on himself.

So Massa brought about a car failure, did Alonso break his DRS as well?

**FrankAlfa** · 7th July 2013, 15:37

All Teams have Highs and Low points in a Season. Ferrari have had a drop in the last few races but we are not half season mark yet and there are many racesd to go. Everyone should but it in perspective that this is a verry fast moving "Sport" and if Bernie's hand does not guided it then Up's and Downs will take place and in the end one will be crowned. As it is right now, Vettel is the best and he is at one with the car. I reminds me of Schumacher during his Dominstion of the sport. I give him and his team credit for Very Good Work and Excellent Driving! As for Ferrari, I do think they need to dig very deep and figure out why they are so far behind??? Yes, Domenicali and Tombazis are the main problems and as soon as Ferrari replace them with better people, the better the team will function. The Briatore or Ascanlli as Team Principle & Allison Chassis Director would be fine replacements for them immediate. Time will tell!

**Bubbles** · 7th July 2013, 15:38

Originally Posted by bonzo

The last 4 years Ferrari's strategy and tactics is based on 3 "strong" foundations:
1. Damage limitations
2. Vettel DNFs
3. Keep Massa on board to be sure of not winning WCC
Ferrari's technical team has its own strong foundation: "Downgrades instead of upgrades".
The team' PR strategy is also vary consistant - next race bla, bla, next season bla bla, wind tunnel bla bla, upgrades coming bla, bla, low temperature bla, bla, team sport bla, bla.

+1

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:39

Originally Posted by Greig

So how would 4th and 5th help us beat Vettel?

It would help against Red Bull. It would help to have two cars at the front making life hard for others. Massa should have another 40 or so points. Don't tell me that wouldn't help.

**Golfsmith** · 7th July 2013, 15:39

Every year us fans/supporters are told this year are WDC and WCC.

First you need to build an innovative car with the correct ingrediants
You need to qualify good an all tracks during all conditions and not praying for hot weather
You need good grip from car in all conditions on any track
You need be good on all tracks/conditions fast/slow
You don't rely on other people not DNF
Then we can start winning races
And then we can talk about championchips

**Tony** · 7th July 2013, 15:40

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

That was RedBull deliberately sabotaging Webbers stop so that he would come out behind Vettel, he was on pace to come out ahead. Probably told the mechanic "just get the gun stuck for a second", it backfired. They should be heavily fined for unsafe release of Webbers car and almost killing a camera man. Disgusting.

On to the next race, lets hope Ferrari can turn it around and pick up some points. I still have faith in our boys! Forza Ferrari!

LOL I was thinking the same thing during the race.... funny how Vettel's pitstops are so flawless....

**bonzo** · 7th July 2013, 15:40

[QUOTE=Italian Spirit;793886]Ferrari F1 budget: over 200 m €.

Lotus f1 budget: less than 100 m €.

Question: what is the problem?

The MANAGEMENT

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:40

Originally Posted by NickEice

It would help against Red Bull. It would help to have two cars at the front making life hard for others. Massa should have another 40 or so points. Don't tell me that wouldn't help.

We don't have one car at the front, never mind two. Again how would finishing 4th and 5th behind Seb help us?

**bonzo** · 7th July 2013, 15:40

[QUOTE=Italian Spirit;793886]Ferrari F1 budget: over 200 m €.

Lotus f1 budget: less than 100 m €.

Question: what is the problem?

The MANAGEMENT

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:41

Originally Posted by Greig

So Massa brought about a car failure, did Alonso break his DRS as well?

I'll just say it. Massa doesn't deserve an F1 seat. Unfortunately his accident in 2009 destroyed his career.

DRS is not part of the chassis. But you can pick one off times when it has happened to Alonso. It doesn't happen every damn weekend.

**Greig** · 7th July 2013, 15:42

Originally Posted by NickEice

I'll just say it. Massa doesn't deserve an F1 seat. Unfortunately his accident in 2009 destroyed his career.

DRS is not part of the chassis. But you can pick one off times when it has happened to Alonso. It doesn't happen every damn weekend.

Ok then

So how did Massa cause the car to break in your expert opinion?

**Kyss4k** · 7th July 2013, 15:43

Originally Posted by NickEice

People don't think the times will slow much. There will be much more torque with the electric. If we have traction issues next year we will be in for a long season. The team that can harness that Torque out of low speed corners will be very successful next year.

Oh they will be slower. The turbos will have more torque, but they will also have more than 100bhp less. 600 + 100 (for 30 seconds only) vs almost 800 we have now.

**Forzi** · 7th July 2013, 15:44

Gladly three decades back there was no internet, this forum and me around these places

Week after week, race after race, starting more and more to see what the Shumi era has done to some people

**NickEice** · 7th July 2013, 15:44

Originally Posted by Greig

We don't have one car at the front, never mind two. Again how would finishing 4th and 5th behind Seb help us?

If the car turns around in the 2nd half we could challenge for the title. But now we have no chance with all the points Massa has left on the table. That's how. Alonso has 2 wins, 2 2nds and a third. Massa has a 3rd. The car was good at one point and he didnt help. He didnt finish we'll in China when we had a dominate race car. Finish on Alonso's heels and take points from the field. Massa came into this season to help Alonso. We all knew deep down he had no chance at a WDC. Fall in line like Romain did today.