Spanish GP 2014 - Race Thread

[Kyss4k]

Here we go. Kimi is "angry" (I see mods, I see). Hopefully there are no dirty tricks played in our team.

[fadyferrari]

For those with more technical knowledge than myself, How much can we work on improving the engine? Or is it sealed all year? What can we do to an engine that is obviously being out done by having the equivalent of a double diffuser built into it as the mercedes is using the gases to get the horsepower.

we can upgrade the engine as long as we show we r improving the relaibilty and fuel efficiency of the engine....

[Nero Horse]

Kimi was quite a bit angry about the strategy for him and after the race he quizzes his engineer about "who is making the calls? We seem to get second choice." - Autosport Live

The pit stop and tyre strategies are agreed upon in the evening before the race, so Kimi has got nothing to complain about. Both drivers got equal treatment and it could just as well worked out for Kimi but this time it just didn't and Fernando managed to finish ahead. The "second choice" talk is just sour grapes. Take it like a man and try again in the next race Kimi! He had a much better race weekend this time and was very close to Fernando, good for him, keep it up.

[zike]

Hope, you'll get banned.

Hope Fry does too :*

[JacKy]

What an embarrassing race... Lapped by merc without any problem? ???

[Nero Horse]

Hopefully there are no dirty tricks played in our team.

What "dirty tricks"??? What on earth are you talking about?! Alonso and Kimi simply had different tyre strategies and it worked out better for Fernando this time but it could just as well have been Kimi finishing ahead of Alonso. Both drivers got equal treatment, no doubt about it. You're supposed to be a Ferrari fan and then you talk such nonsense about some "dirty tricks" LOL.

[Hornet]

Here we go. Kimi is "angry" (I see mods, I see). Hopefully there are no dirty tricks played in our team.

In Mercedes we see Lewis and Nico doing different strategy too. Nothing strange about drivers doing different strategy.

[shamim179]

Think if we were to race again in Bahrain we would have done even worse than 9th and 10th. This is not a weak track for us so that should be taken into account.

I don't think things are going to get any better any time soon. Mattiacci will take a while to settle in and it will take a lot of thinking to identify problem areas. I can see 2016 being the earliest time when we can bounce back if things run smoothly from now on. A lot of ifs basically. We must and foremost get out of this destructive downward spiral. I can see a lot of talent jumping ship during these vulnerable times.

[ALO]

Nice move by Alonso down T3, despite some fans trying to downplay it.

Can't say it was a boring race though with plenty of overtaking.

The bad side is we got lapped. This is what happens when Merc showed their true pace till the last lap, they are that far ahead.

Yeah nice move just like last year passing both HAM and RAI in the same place.

[ntukza]

For those with more technical knowledge than myself, How much can we work on improving the engine? Or is it sealed all year? What can we do to an engine that is obviously being out done by having the equivalent of a double diffuser built into it as the mercedes is using the gases to get the horsepower.


FOUND THE ANSWER http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-them-the-edge

We're screwed, mate.

[evo_spook]

The pit stop and tyre strategies are agreed upon in the evening before the race, so Kimi has got nothing to complain about. Both drivers got equal treatment and it could just as well worked out for Kimi but this time it just didn't and Fernando managed to finish ahead. The "second choice" talk is just sour grapes. Take it like a man and try again in the next race Kimi! He had a much better race weekend this time and was very close to Fernando, good for him, keep it up.

I think he means he was in the lead he should have had the pitstop first, but for some reason they decided to call Alonso in first. I agree with Kimi.

[LivingHitokiri]

The pit stop and tyre strategies are agreed upon in the evening before the race, so Kimi has got nothing to complain about. Both drivers got equal treatment and it could just as well worked out for Kimi but this time it just didn't and Fernando managed to finish ahead. The "second choice" talk is just sour grapes. Take it like a man and try again in the next race Kimi! He had a much better race weekend this time and was very close to Fernando, good for him, keep it up.

Sorry but il bite on this one since is clearly not true.

First of all we are ignoring the fact that for some reason Ferrari pitted Alonso first when Raikkonen was ahead, thats a clear undercut which backfired due to Alonso getting stuck behind a slower car.
Secondly,the strategy was based according to the simulation that De La Rosa provided and it agreed with both drivers and the team. The difference i this occasion is that the team was aware of Raikkonen following the bad strategy,they changed for Alonso but for some mind boggling reason they didnt for Raikkonen.
Raikkonen after Alonso's second pit stop (lap 36) until he pitted ( lap 44) was losing 2 seconds per lap from Fernando on harder tyres which made the gap of 23 seconds they had in a mere 7 before Raikkonen lapped.
The question is, why Ferrari that saw Raikkonen losing so much time didn't changed his strategy but instead made him lose 16 second sin mere 8 laps and the forced him to do 22 laps on hard tyres while trying to save them till the end of the race ?

It was clear as day that it was wrong from any point of view just by doing simple calculations. I can understand the team making a mistake for 1-2 laps but for 8 ?
After watching his interview he is surely displeased with the strategy and surely nobody can blame him for that.

[ntukza]

We need to fire more people. I'm not being negative here, just realistic. Look, the current crop has failed in four consecutive years. Are they really going to offer something different and revolutionary? They should do the honourable thing like their leader and resign. Especially since Luca doesn't seem to be inclined to firing people.

[Hornet]

Sorry but il bite on this one since is clearly not true.

First of all we are ignoring the fact that for some reason Ferrari pitted Alonso first when Raikkonen was ahead, thats a clear undercut which backfired due to Alonso getting stuck behind a slower car.
Secondly,the strategy was based according to the simulation that De La Rosa provided and it agreed with both drivers and the team. The difference i this occasion is that the team was aware of Raikkonen following the bad strategy,they changed for Alonso but for some mind boggling reason they didnt for Raikkonen.
Raikkonen after Alonso's second pit stop (lap 36) until he pitted ( lap 44) was losing 2 seconds per lap from Fernando on harder tyres which made the gap of 23 seconds they had in a mere 7 before Raikkonen lapped.
The question is, why Ferrari that saw Raikkonen losing so much time didn't changed his strategy but instead made him lose 16 second sin mere 8 laps and the forced him to do 22 laps on hard tyres while trying to save them till the end of the race ?

It was clear as day that it was wrong from any point of view just by doing simple calculations. I can understand the team making a mistake for 1-2 laps but for 8 ?
After watching his interview he is surely displeased with the strategy and surely nobody can blame him for that.

If Alonso is going on a 3 stop, naturally he would be pitted earlier than Kimi.

And in a 3 stop strategy, it's going to produce faster lap times as it has to compensate for the extra stop. So of course Alonso is going to be faster than Kimi in the third stint because he has to compensate for the extra stop while Kimi has to nurse his tires, but he gains by not stopping an extra time.

[Meiga]

Sorry but il bite on this one since is clearly not true.

First of all we are ignoring the fact that for some reason Ferrari pitted Alonso first when Raikkonen was ahead, thats a clear undercut which backfired due to Alonso getting stuck behind a slower car.
Secondly,the strategy was based according to the simulation that De La Rosa provided and it agreed with both drivers and the team. The difference i this occasion is that the team was aware of Raikkonen following the bad strategy,they changed for Alonso but for some mind boggling reason they didnt for Raikkonen.
Raikkonen after Alonso's second pit stop (lap 36) until he pitted ( lap 44) was losing 2 seconds per lap from Fernando on harder tyres which made the gap of 23 seconds they had in a mere 7 before Raikkonen lapped.
The question is, why Ferrari that saw Raikkonen losing so much time didn't changed his strategy but instead made him lose 16 second sin mere 8 laps and the forced him to do 22 laps on hard tyres while trying to save them till the end of the race ?

It was clear as day that it was wrong from any point of view just by doing simple calculations. I can understand the team making a mistake for 1-2 laps but for 8 ?
After watching his interview he is surely displeased with the strategy and surely nobody can blame him for that.

The same De la Rosa that explained on Spanish TV, before the race, that a 2-stopper was a faster strategy than a 3-stopper by some 7 secs?

[LivingHitokiri]

If Alonso is going on a 3 stop, naturally he would be pitted earlier than Kimi.

And in a 3 stop strategy, it's going to produce faster lap times as it has to compensate for the extra stop. So of course Alonso is going to be faster than Kimi in the second stint because he has to compensate for the extra stop while Kimi has to nurse his tires, but he gains by not stopping an extra time.

The point of doing 1 less pit stop is to gain time compared to the one that did more so, if you lose more time per lap that what you gain then its obviously wrong strategy and Ferrari didnt reacted to that unlike they reacted to Fernando while trying to protect him from Vettel. So Raikkonen should've been losing max 1 second per lap in order for the strategy being beneficial
The was no logical explanation why leaving Raikkonen on track losing so much time on wasted tyres and then make him turtle for 22 on hard tyres which puts him not only at position to never hunt bottas but makes him both vulnerable to Fernanado and Vettel at the same time.

The same De la Rosa that explained on Spanish TV, before the race, that a 2-stopper was a faster strategy than a 3-stopper by some 7 secs?

Thats right, it seems tho many aspects in the simulation are not calculated, the calculation is just hypothetical in case the drivers drive a race without losing time and they also do not include some temperatures chances that happen during races bu t this simulation its the best indication the teams got so during the race the team can/will/must change strategy according to conditions of the track and taking into according drivers positions ,times and many many more.

[Nero Horse]

When Merc and others use different strategies for their drivers then it's "fair play" but when Ferrari does it then it's immediately "dirty tricks".....yea, whatever LOL.
In this kind of situation there will always be sour grapes from either side, if Alonso had finished behind Kimi then all the Alonso fans would be saying that "Ferrari is using dirty tricks against Alonso and helping Kimi" and if Alonso finishes ahead of Kimi then all the Kimi fans are whining and saying the same thing, nothing new under the sun.

*yawn*

[shamim179]

Lead car usually gets 1st priority in terms of strategy. This wasn't the case today. We need to be careful here otherwise we could end up losing both of our drivers! In our quest to please Alonso we must not undermine Kimi. The irony is that it is our own fault to be in the situation we're in. If our our car was competitive Alonso would be a happy man and there would have been none of this fear of losing him.

[Kyss4k]

What "dirty tricks"??? What on earth are you talking about?! Alonso and Kimi simply had different tyre strategies and it worked out better for Fernando this time but it could just as well have been Kimi finishing ahead of Alonso. Both drivers got equal treatment, no doubt about it. You're supposed to be a Ferrari fan and then you talk such nonsense about some "dirty tricks" LOL.

I'm talking about Alonso being called to pit first both times. People are already speculating... And I said: I hope.

[radosav]

The point of doing 1 less pit stop is to gain time compared to the one that did more so, if you lose more time per lap that what you gain then its obviously wrong strategy and Ferrari didnt reacted to that unlike they reacted to Fernando while trying to protect him from Vettel. So Raikkonen should've been losing max 1 second per lap in order for the strategy being beneficial
The was no logical explanation why leaving Raikkonen on track losing so much time on wasted tyres and then make him turtle for 22 on hard tyres which puts him not only at position to never hunt bottas but makes him both vulnerable to Fernanado and Vettel at the same time.



Thats right, it seems tho many aspects in the simulation are not calculated, the calculation is just hypothetical in case the drivers drive a race without losing time and they also do not include some temperatures chances that happen during races bu t this simulation its the best indication the teams got so during the race the team can/will/must change strategy according to conditions of the track and taking into according drivers positions ,times and many many more.

Kimi was too slow on hards, if he wasn't then he would be in front Alo no problem

[LivingHitokiri]

When Merc and others use different strategies for their drivers then it's "fair play" but when Ferrari does it then it's immediately "dirty tricks".....yea, whatever LOL.
In this kind of situation there will always be sour grapes from either side, if Alonso had finished behind Kimi then all the Alonso fans would be saying that "Ferrari is using dirty tricks against Alonso and helping Kimi" and if Alonso finishes ahead of Kimi then all the Kimi fans are whining and saying the same thing, nothing new under the sun.

*yawn*

I do not understand why you're trying to change the subject or bring it to something else when all i do is to question a bad decision of the team while providing the evidence for it.I never said about any dirty trick or favoring anyone i just merely question our decision making and answering on why Raikkonen justifiably is not pleased with it.

For Mercedess the followed the same 3 pit strategy as the both drivers follow same numbers of but with a difference on when each puts prime or option first which is a preference to driver i guess?
Besides, Mercedes is so far ahead even making bad strategies wont compromise them but just the driver that got it. In our case we are losing valuable places which is not the luxury we afford to lose.

[radosav]

i read some other forums where they say that Alo said that they decided to risk different strategy(at that time worse strategy, with more traffic and overtaking) because he had bad start and they had nothing to lose.

[radosav]

ANGRY KIMI HERE. http://instagram.com/p/n3FrTsEVRz/#

[LivingHitokiri]

Kimi was too slow on hards, if he wasn't then he would be in front Alo no problem

Raikkonen was slow on hard tyres because he had to manage the tyres till the end of the race unlike Alonso that was pushing the tyres on the limit for shorter stints. If you check Raikkonen and Bottas times they were identical at the their last stint which points out clearly how 3 stops strategy was better than the 2 stop strategy.

[LivingHitokiri]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113909

Interesting read

[Ferrarikkonen]

Kimis strategy was really botched up. But luckily he lost a place only to a ferrari driver

[Rob]

We're screwed, mate.

we too have the same compressor layout, but we went for a bigger shaft as we thought the vibrations and stresses between the V would be to great.

[PadGeT]

ANGRY KIMI HERE. http://instagram.com/p/n3FrTsEVRz/#

[Nero Horse]

I do not understand why you're trying to change the subject or bring it to something else when all i do is to question a bad decision of the team while providing the evidence for it.I never said about any dirty trick or favoring anyone i just merely question our decision making and answering on why Raikkonen justifiably is not pleased with it.

For Mercedess the followed the same 3 pit strategy as the both drivers follow same numbers of but with a difference on when each puts prime or option first which is a preference to driver i guess?
Besides, Mercedes is so far ahead even making bad strategies wont compromise them but just the driver that got it. In our case we are losing valuable places which is not the luxury we afford to lose.

Yea, you can say whatever you want, quite frankly I don't even care. There can never be a win/win solution that would satisfy both sets of fans and there will always be some crying and whining coming from either Kimi fans or Alonso fans. I knew already before the start of the season that such discussions would begin sooner or later...and here we are now. No surprises, really.

[radosav]

Raikkonen was slow on hard tyres because he had to manage the tyres till the end of the race unlike Alonso that was pushing the tyres on the limit for shorter stints. If you check Raikkonen and Bottas times they were identical at the their last stint which points out clearly how 3 stops strategy was better than the 2 stop strategy.

Kimi's stint on hards was just 5 laps longer than Alo's, with lighter car, and kimi was still 0.7-0.8 sec slower in average than Alo on hards. And i have to mention that degradation wasn't problem this year with hard tyres. Kimi was too slow on hards.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...nando%20Alonso