Spanish GP 2014 - Race Thread

[Hornet]

Lead car usually gets 1st priority in terms of strategy. This wasn't the case today. We need to be careful here otherwise we could end up losing both of our drivers! In our quest to please Alonso we must not undermine Kimi. The irony is that it is our own fault to be in the situation we're in. If our our car was competitive Alonso would be a happy man and there would have been none of this fear of losing him.

The drivers are free to chose whatever strategy they wishes. At that time, you can't possibly tell with 100% certainty which is the better strategy. There is no priority strategy when you do not know which is the fastest.

You people are just looking back in hindsight and say 3 stop is the faster strategy just because Alonso finished ahead of Kimi, and now accuse Ferrari of playing favorites. If Ferrari wanted team orders, they would have gotten on the radio and told Kimi to move aside early on, simple as that.

[PadGeT]

If Ferrari wanted team orders, they would have gotten on the radio and told Kimi to move aside early on, simple as that.

What's the fun in that?

[LivingHitokiri]

Yea, you can say whatever you want, quite frankly I don't even care. There can never be a win/win solution that would satisfy both sets of fans and there will always be some crying and whining coming from either Kimi fans or Alonso fans. I knew already before the start of the season that such discussions would begin sooner or later...and here we are now. No surprises, really.

It wasnt my intention to sound like a defending fanboy im just genuinely that these mistakes which are part of what hinders our team at the moment. If you read the article i provided you can clearly assume that Alonso got " lucky" on his own misfortune by having tyre problems which forced him to do a 3 stop strategy in order to deal with Vettel as well.

I know saying that our guys need to step up but in this occasion its clearly relevant.

[Hunkelberg]

Somewhere Dominecali is laughing his behind off. What a wise decision it was to jump off the sinking ship. Otherwise, imagine LdM staring down Domenicali...No doubt, this season would take years off poor ol Stefano.

Give the man props, at leas he saw the writings on the wall and left the party early. Smart move, lol.

[PadGeT]

Give the man props, at leas he saw the writings on the wall and left the party early. Smart move, lol.

Ya, smart move!!
How does that help his reputation?

[shamim179]

Somewhere Dominecali is laughing his behind off. What a wise decision it was to jump off the sinking ship. Otherwise, imagine LdM staring down Domenicali...No doubt, this season would take years off poor ol Stefano.

Give the man props, at leas he saw the writings on the wall and left the party early. Smart move, lol.

Stefano left before it was too late. You've gotta hand it to the guy for lasting as long as he did. He was a great smooth talker and defended his position well. During the firing line it was Costa instead of him. He knows how to talk and how to handle Luca. All of this itself is an art and it's no wonder he is already being headhunted. Such skills can be a tremendous asset depending on the circumstances.

[LivingHitokiri]

Kimi's stint on hards was just 5 laps longer than Alo's, with lighter car, and kimi was still 0.7-0.8 sec slower in average than Alo on hards. And i have to mention that degradation wasn't problem this year with hard tyres. Kimi was too slow on hards.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...nando%20Alonso

I already gave you the explanation behind Raikkonen being slow on hards. He had to manage the tyres for more time while losing constantly while Alonso could push all the way without a worry plus the advantage he got during these 8 laps that Raikkonen lost plus the advantage for having 10 laps newer tyres at the end ( were car are much lighter) and on option compound .
Like i've said before, if Raikkonen was losing 1 second MAX he would be ok for following the 2 stop strategy but losing 2 seconds per lap.

Also looking at the graph Raikkonen was losing around 3-4 tenths for 4 laps before Alonso pitted for the mediums, were exactly you see 0.7 and 0.8

Kimi pits then on next laps) he lost:
Lap 23: +0.443
Lap 24: +0.317
Lap 25: +0.376
Lap 26: +0.200
Lap 27: +0.203
Lap 28: -0.340 ( Kimi gains time)


After that Fernando pits on medium and of course the gap will increase.

[radosav]

Kimi was too slow on hards, if he was only 3 tenths faster Alo wound have chance to catch him. Alonso was on worse strategy, but ''luckily'' he was 0.7 sec faster than Kimi on hards.

[Catalan]

Alonso post race in Barcelona-Catalunya: " it's always the same. Now there will be talk that Ferrari will have a new car in Monaco in 2 weeks and then, we will finish 8th there and people will feel disappointed. We cannot "sell" the idea that we will have a revolution in 2 weeks, because, simply, that's not going to happen. We'll be taking small but continuous steps, working night and day, and will do our best ".

Don't know what to think. LdM said on Friday that they expect a big step in Canada, the press publishing today that Ferrari will have big upgrades ready for both Canada and Silverstone, Kimi angry after the race, Alonso resigned, Domenicali gone, and Mercedes in a different universe.

[radosav]

I already gave you the explanation behind Raikkonen being slow on hards. He had to manage the tyres for more time while losing constantly while Alonso could push all the way without a worry plus the advantage he got during these 8 laps that Raikkonen lost plus the advantage for having 10 laps newer tyres at the end ( were car are much lighter) and on option compound .
Like i've said before, if Raikkonen was losing 1 second MAX he would be ok for following the 2 stop strategy but losing 2 seconds per lap.

Also looking at the graph Raikkonen was losing around 3-4 tenths for 4 laps before Alonso pitted for the mediums, were exactly you see 0.7 and 0.8

Kimi pits then on next laps) he lost:
Lap 23: +0.443
Lap 24: +0.317
Lap 25: +0.376
Lap 26: +0.200
Lap 27: +0.203
Lap 28: -0.340 ( Kimi gains time)


After that Fernando pits on medium and of course the gap will increase.

not true, you didn't had to watch so much tyres because degradation wasn't issue. difference of five laps longer stint on harder tyres doesn't make you drive 0.7 sec slower. Kimi was too slow on hards. if he was o.3 sec faster Alo wouldn't had a chance.

[LivingHitokiri]

Kimi was too slow on hards, if he was only 3 tenths faster Alo wound have chance to catch him. Alonso was on worse strategy, but ''luckily'' he was 0.7 sec faster than Kimi on hards.

Mate, are you trolling me on purpose or you're not even reading what im writing ?
I gave you explanation on were Raikkonen lost the time for, he lost Lap : 36 until Lap : 44 , he lost nearly 17 seconds on 8 laps alone.After that he was losing 3 tenths each lap average for 4 laps then he stabilized and even gained some. Alonso after that pitted and with medium fresh tyres it was obvious for him to catch up.
Also 3 stop strategy was the ideal strategy without a doubt.

[LivingHitokiri]

not true, you didn't had to watch so much tyres because degradation wasn't issue. difference of five laps longer stint on harder tyres doesn't make you drive 0.7 sec slower. Kimi was too slow on hards. if he was o.3 sec faster Alo wouldn't had a chance.

The data are there mate, you yourself provided them i do not understand were you see those magical 0.7 seconds slower on hards .... Since Raikkonen was on different strategy and wasn't pushing his tyres , i've already brought Bottas in comparison and how their times were identical to Raikkonen.

[PadGeT]

Carry on guys, I am enjoying this !!!

[shamim179]

Alonso post race in Barcelona-Catalunya: " it's always the same. Now there will be talk that Ferrari will have a new car in Monaco in 2 weeks and then, we will finish 8th there and people will feel disappointed. We cannot "sell" the idea that we will have a revolution in 2 weeks, because, simply, that's not going to happen. We'll be taking small but continuous steps, working night and day, and will do our best ".

Don't know what to think. LdM said on Friday that they expect a big step in Canada, the press publishing today that Ferrari will have big upgrades ready for both Canada and Silverstone, Kimi angry after the race, Alonso resigned, Domenicali gone, and Mercedes in a different universe.

Pretty clear to me when you put it in that way :

Luca under pressure and working really hard
Alonso frustrated and contemplating switching teams if there is a way
Kimi pondering on whether there is favoritism going on
Stefano probably drinking a nice drink on a beach somewhere in this world relieved to have left just on time
Mattiacci thinking what have I done for taking on this role. This is such a mess

The biggest winner is Stefano!

[mirafiori]

Well a very disappointing day for us Ferrari fans, could be worse if you support Mclaren with the superior Mercedes engine are a bigger joke than us at the moment, Sky presenters at it again during the race taking the **** and laughing when Vettel overtook our cars and said Natalie Pinkham will have fun interviewing our drivers after the race.

[Senna4Ever]

We should've followed both strategies that Vettel ran, get rid of the hard tires and chase with mediums at the end of the race.....

AAs it seems he struggled with the harder tire what should it help? He would have lost the time earlier instead of the end ... and how do you know that this would have worked out ... Do you know the intitial pit plan of our drivers? Kimi can talk to his crew if he thinks he needs a pit stop ...

Some really try to make a big thing about what happens to have a internal fight.
What should Massa say? Also +1 more pit stop than Bottas

Man of the race: Vettel ... unfortunately, overtake always at the same turn ... too bad that Kimi didn't watch and make him broad before turn 10 ... at start finish straight we wouldn't have catched him ... only in short distance you can see the advantage of the grip out of the corners ... therefore he mostly overtake in DRS zone 1 ... very clever indeed. In zone 2 he lost this advantage due to lack of top speed of the downforce Newey monster.

Scary to see how Vettel run away from Alonso even they had same strategy and same tires ... just annoying ...

[Rob]

Well a very disappointing day for us Ferrari fans, could be worse if you support Mclaren with the superior Mercedes engine are a bigger joke than us at the moment, Sky presenters at it again during the race taking the **** and laughing when Vettel overtook our cars and said Natalie Pinkham will have fun interviewing our drivers after the race.

Sky presenters starting to annoy me, especially after Fernando pitted first, but Kimi still came out in front. Could hear Brundle and David #1Merc fan Croft, laughing as they were talking.

[Hunkelberg]

It was deliberate fade of consciousness from one side of the box...but then Kimi knew where he was heading. It was slippery slop from get go. In fact, this was Ferrari race strategy. Did you think they would let them battle for track position? That is absurd. I can't recall when one driver was allowed to pass another on track on merit. Ferrari will not let them race against each other, this is not in the teams DNA. Recall, there can only be one rooster in the hen house.

Would you prefer them instead come on the radio and say on mic:
Kimi, let Fernando pass for the championship.

And then, Raikkonen would have to yield. Think about humiliation. His ice cool "iceman" image would be tarnished. And he would only be Fernando's number two driver. So team elegantly avoided this. Instead iceman only got a minute or two of red faced blush moment in front of tv camera. He is a big boy, he can take care of himself.

[PadGeT]

David #1Merc fan Croft, laughing as they were talking.

Have you tried tweeting him that? Would be funny as hell if it got picked up in the show !!
Has got a nice Dutch feel to that name.

[LivingHitokiri]

AAs it seems he struggled with the harder tire what should it help? He would have lost the time earlier instead of the end ... and how do you know that this would have worked out ... Do you know the intitial pit plan of our drivers? Kimi can talk to his crew if he thinks he needs a pit stop ...

Some really try to make a big thing about what happens to have a internal fight.
What should Massa say? Also +1 more pit stop than Bottas

Im pretty sure Alonso would have struggled the same if was on two stops strategy. As the data provided shows that the time when both were on hard tyres their difference was minimal taking into account that Raikkonen was nursing tyres for 22 laps.
You cannot directly compare lap times of 2 stops strategy car with a 3 stop strategy car because the 3 stops will obviously be faster.
The whole point of 1 less spot is to gain an immediate huge time advantage and manage your race in that way so you dont lose that time until next pit stop or end of the race. You do not do 1 less stop and expect to go faster than others, unless youre Merc.
Massa is a bad example as his race got compromised by numerous tyres issues he had and getting stuck and was nowhere near on pace with Bottas like Alonso and Raikkonen were. It wasnt wast that strategy that gave Bottas edge in the race over Massa but the overall pace.

[Hornet]

It was deliberate fade of consciousness from one side of the box...but then Kimi knew where he was heading. It was slippery slop from get go. In fact, this was Ferrari race strategy. Did you think they would let them battle for track position? That is absurd. I can't recall when one driver was allowed to pass another on track on merit. Ferrari will not let them race against each other, this is not in the teams DNA. Recall, there can only be one rooster in the hen house.

Would you prefer them instead come on the radio and say on mic:
Kimi, let Fernando pass for the championship.

And then, Raikkonen would have to yield. Think about humiliation. His ice cool "iceman" image would be tarnished. And he would only be Fernando's number two driver. So team elegantly avoided this. Instead iceman only got a minute or two of red faced blush moment in front of tv camera. He is a big boy, he can take care of himself.

Ferrari have done team orders many times in the past, including 2008 where Kimi let Massa through because Massa was fighting for the WDC. Why would it be any different now? I don't recall Kimi's iceman image being tarnished back then.

If the team wanted team orders, they would have told Kimi to move aside at the beginning and release Alonso, instead of orchestrating an entire race just to move Alonso one place ahead.

No one claims Ferrari is perfect with the strategy. If people wants to think Ferrari made a mistake with Kimi's strategy, fine. But its absurd to suggest that it was deliberate.

[LivingHitokiri]

It was deliberate fade of consciousness from one side of the box...but then Kimi knew where he was heading. It was slippery slop from get go. In fact, this was Ferrari race strategy. Did you think they would let them battle for track position? That is absurd. I can't recall when one driver was allowed to pass another on track on merit. Ferrari will not let them race against each other, this is not in the teams DNA. Recall, there can only be one rooster in the hen house.

Would you prefer them instead come on the radio and say on mic:
Kimi, let Fernando pass for the championship.

And then, Raikkonen would have to yield. Think about humiliation. His ice cool "iceman" image would be tarnished. And he would only be Fernando's number two driver. So team elegantly avoided this. Instead iceman only got a minute or two of red faced blush moment in front of tv camera. He is a big boy, he can take care of himself.

I honestly think that it was more of reckless from the team rather any favoritism .
Alonso got lucky in his misfortune due to some issues which made him ask/discuss with team change of strategy which turned beneficial for him.
Raikkonen on the other hand had no clue about him losing over 2 seconds per lap from Alonso and the team didnt react to it accordingly. Its like our strategy team got caught sleeping while luckily one driver managed to wake them up and get it done....

[Rob]

Have you tried tweeting him that? Would be funny as hell if it got picked up in the show !!
Has got a nice Dutch feel to that name.

i will tweet him that for Monaco

[radosav]

Mate, are you trolling me on purpose or you're not even reading what im writing ?
I gave you explanation on were Raikkonen lost the time for, he lost Lap : 36 until Lap : 44 , he lost nearly 17 seconds on 8 laps alone.After that he was losing 3 tenths each lap average for 4 laps then he stabilized and even gained some. Alonso after that pitted and with medium fresh tyres it was obvious for him to catch up.
Also 3 stop strategy was the ideal strategy without a doubt.

mate, I am telling you again! Last Alonso's lap on hards was as fast as fastest Kimi's on hards!
Two stop strategy was ideal ,if you have pace of Alonso on hards! It would be seven seconds advantage if Kimi didn't had problems with hards! This isn't anything against Kimi !

[PadGeT]

i will tweet him that for Monaco

[LivingHitokiri]

mate, I am telling you again! Last Alonso's lap on hards was as fast as fastest Kimi's on hards!
Two stop strategy was ideal ,if you have pace of Alonso on hards! It would be seven seconds advantage if Kimi didn't had problems with hards! This isn't anything against Kimi !

You're seriously comparing the pace of two pit stop strategy times with a three stops strategy times ?
The only comparison of Raikkonen vs Alonso is valid until Alonso made his second pit stop after that its not even remotely possible to compare hence is why you point out how much the 2 stops strategy car lost from the 3 stops strategy car untill race ended . Thats how you compare different strategies and not directly.

Raikkonen had to manage the lead of 22 second over 22 laps which means he could afford losing 1 second max from Alonso and still being advantageous from 1 less strategy he was following. THAT didnt happen hence why Raikkonen strategy was the wrong one and why 3 strategy would be ideal for him.
Thats not an opinion or assumption,thats a fact

[Greig]

Boring race, nothing new about our pace.

[Hunkelberg]

I honestly think that it was more of reckless from the team rather any favoritism .
Alonso got lucky in his misfortune due to some issues which made him ask/discuss with team change of strategy which turned beneficial for him.
Raikkonen on the other hand had no clue about him losing over 2 seconds per lap from Alonso and the team didnt react to it accordingly. Its like our strategy team got caught sleeping while luckily one driver managed to wake them up and get it done....

Don't you worry about him. They will give him his ice cream and he will be cool.

But, seriously, do you expect Ferrari let their racers battle each other fair and square. This is not how things are done in Scuderia. Take your rose glasses off. Italy, of all places, is the place where things are rigged to absurdity. That is why politics is so important., and some thrive in it. People call it passion. For instance, ask Newey's take on this matter. Perhaps he enjoys wings that RedBull gives him. Ferrari will give him 10+ managers to report to plus this lovely fella, LdM. swinging fists and unintentionally hitting on tables, for extra motivation. As for RAI, well, he learned his lesson. His baby-like naiveness gave it away the first time Rachel Brookes of sky f1 asked him of what was it if not preferential treatment. But he will be good. Monies he will get will get him enough vodka to erase those traumatic experiences he had in the past. Lol.

[radosav]

You're seriously comparing the pace of two pit stop strategy times with a three stops strategy times ?
The only valid comparison of Raikkonen vs Alonso is valid until Alonso made his second pit stop after that its not even remotely possible to compare hence is why you point out how much the 2 stops strategy car lost from the 3 stops strategy car untill race ended . Thats how you compare different strategies and not directly.

Raikkonen had manage the lead of 22 second over 22 laps which means he could afford losing 1 second max from Alonso and still being advantageous from 1 less strategy he was following. THAT didnt happen hence why Raikkonen strategy was the wrong one and why 3 strategy would be ideal for him.
Thats not an opinion or assumption,thats a fact

Alonso was always in traffic with three stop strategy, and last pit stop just ten laps before end! It isn't better strategy! Kimi would be in front Alo,and maybe Vettel if this car would allow better setup possibility!

[LivingHitokiri]

Don't you worry about him. They will give him his ice cream and he will be cool.

But, seriously, do you expect Ferrari let their racers battle each other fair and square. This is not how things are done in Scuderia. Take your rose glasses off. Italy, of all places, is the place where things are rigged to absurdity. That is why politics is so important., and some thrive in it. People call it passion. For instance, ask Newey's take on this matter. Perhaps he enjoys wings that RedBull gives him. Ferrari will give him 10+ managers to report to plus this lovely fella, LdM. swinging fists and unintentionally hitting on tables, for extra motivation. As for RAI, well, he learned his lesson. His baby-like naiveness gave it away the first time Rachel Brookes of sky f1 asked him of what was it if not preferential treatment. But he will be good. Monies he will get will get him enough vodka to erase those traumatic experiences he had in the past. Lol.

I see no point on why Ferrari ,especially at this point of the season at this situation we are at moment would bother to create a fuss between drivers, it makes no sense.
Why would you favor a driver at this point when you're freaking fighting for 6th -7th place ?
Its not like 2007 were they changed positions with Massa and Raikkonen for the WDC or in 2008 were Raikkonen let Massa pass for the WDC its totally pointless.
Raikkonen is probably at his race engineer probably for some lack of communication during the race which made him follow the wrong strategy.