F14-T- Development & News

[Alesi1]

I doubt it's 60 or 70% capacity. It's just not going to happen in the world of f1. I don't believe spec b car for Spain either, remember the infamous fersauber back in 2012, or the red flame update on the car which was suppose to change everything. These never came about, and neither would a spec b car.
All Ferrari would and could do is chip away and close the gap slowy. But honestly I don't see this year being any good. You can't close a 1 second game to merc. I love Ferrari, but I'm realistic
Guess only time will tell. I believe power unit issues, for me the start of the race says it all.

[Fer12]

http://grandprix247.com/2014/04/01/exclusive-red-bull-ditch-renault-to-use-their-own-f1-v6-turbo-engines-from-june-onward/
Must be an April Fools joke!!!

[Jas]

Monisha Kaltenborn team boss wanted the position no longer talk nicely : "We still have some catching up in terms of performance. " The Ferrari - driving and being overweight are the largest construction sites . The motor is too heavy, delivers too little power . In addition to a lack of speed on the straight , the problems manifest with loss of time in slow corners .

good on her I say, she kept quiet to give Ferrari a chance to catch up but that's not happened!

[Kingdom Hearts]

Monisha Kaltenborn team boss wanted the position no longer talk nicely : "We still have some catching up in terms of performance. " The Ferrari - driving and being overweight are the largest construction sites . The motor is too heavy, delivers too little power . In addition to a lack of speed on the straight , the problems manifest with loss of time in slow corners .

I doubt she said that even if is true that the PU sucks, give us a link.

[Alonso14]

Monisha Kaltenborn team boss wanted the position no longer talk nicely : "We still have some catching up in terms of performance. " The Ferrari - driving and being overweight are the largest construction sites . The motor is too heavy, delivers too little power . In addition to a lack of speed on the straight , the problems manifest with loss of time in slow corners .

Well yeah, but other than that the engine is pretty good, no? :D

It's April the 1st so I'm going to treat this with caution but let's face it - joke or not - it does appear very close to the reality.

[F1NAC]

Source?

So the ERS power deficit was only partially restored. Another 20-40 BHP to be gained then.

joke :D

[shamim179]

Some positive news guys
#Ferrari to bring a F14 T–B only in Spain, little updates in China, but only in Europe the car'll receive a totally new aero package

Also apparently the PU ran at only 60% in aus and 70% in malayasia. Aiming for 80 in china and 100 by Europe.if true I think it's quite positive for once.

This is referring to the ERS and not the ICE. So we still haven't ironed out our ERS issues completely yet. It's taking a long time to resolve. This explains why we're down on power. There are significant gains to be made once we solve it but we're moving very slowly but steadily. I hope this cautious approach if it is that doesn't backfire us.

[WS6TransAm01]

We seem to only be using a fraction of the allowable rev range. Maybe we run out of air volume above the high 11 thousand range, or its a fuel flow problem, but when the RPM stops climbing in 7th gear, the speed will not increase either. Maybe the drag begins to over come the ability of the engine to continue acceleration.

I wonder what the Merc engines are revving to during the race...

[Winter]

Could it be that ERS unit is runned at 70% with purpose? If the ERS power kicks in too aggressively and when used at 100%, it would make the car just uncontrollable.
Or is there some info why the ERS is not at full use, or is it even sure that we don't already take all out from it?

[Winter]

douple

[Rosso Corsa]

Yeh but he other teams are not just waiting around either, merc and red bull will get stronger.

Agreed, they're not going to hang around. I do think Ferrari can find 1 second though. Of course how that will stack up to the competition at that point is unknown. Hopefully it will be enough and not too late for this season.

[Tony]

Given all the problems that Ferrari seem to be currently having, I don't think there will be a simple fix for this. I suggest some of you guys not get your hopes up with a lot of the speculation that is out there in terms of updates. It clearly looks like a difficult year ahead especially after James Allison's comments reproduced above...

[GrndLkNatv]

Racecar Engineering mag was quoted as saying no additional power could be generated between 12000rpm and 15000rpm given the fuel limitations according to what they had heard from Renault. Given that I would say Ferrari are probably 10% on either side of that as are the Mercs.

We seem to only be using a fraction of the allowable rev range. Maybe we run out of air volume above the high 11 thousand range, or its a fuel flow problem, but when the RPM stops climbing in 7th gear, the speed will not increase either. Maybe the drag begins to over come the ability of the engine to continue acceleration.

I wonder what the Merc engines are revving to during the race...

[Jas]

I DONT GET THE LAST BIT...about him saying it was more difficult for us...does he mean size (as previously), not our technology/expertise?!?!




Stefano Domenicali with Fernando Alonso © Action Images


Play our F1 game

Season In Pictures



Ferrari boss calls for swift improvement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01 April 2014, 15:49













Ferrari are under pressure to improve their Formula One car quickly after a stuttering start in order give Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen a realistic world title chance, according to principal Stefano Domenicali.

Domenicali told the Formula One website in an interview published on Tuesday that the team must "make sure that we give them the best car we can. That is the urgent need, and it has to happen very soon."

Alonso placed fourth in the opening two season races in Australia and Malaysia, with the Bahrain race next on Sunday. Raikkonen, who won the last drivers' title for the scuderia in 2007 and returned to the team this season, was seventh in Australia and 12th in Malaysia.

"So far Fernando has proved to be fast immediately. Kimi needs some time to understand the car, but you can see he is getting there. I am sure from the drivers' side there will not be a problem," Domenicali said.

Domenicali admitted that Mercedes are the team to beat after shining in the pre-season and winning the opening races with Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.

"If Mercedes keeps the pace it will be very difficult to match them," he said.

Domenicali said that teams and engine manufacturers like Mercedes had an advantage after sweeping rule changes because they can draw on their wide range of technology and expertise in all areas. But he said Ferrari are ready for the challenge and have invested big in development equipment they didn't have in the past.

"We need to work to have a more efficient car; we need to work to have a better engine; we need to work to exploit better the balance between electric power and traditional engine power. Everywhere!" he said.

"Sure it was more difficult for us - and we knew that. But that is the beauty of the challenge. We have to fight so that we can keep up ... we love the challenge - it has always been part of Ferrari's nature and heritage."

[Jas]

I DONT GET THE LAST BIT...about him saying it was more difficult for us...does he mean size (as previously), not our technology/expertise?!?!




Ferrari are under pressure to improve their Formula One car quickly after a stuttering start in order give Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen a realistic world title chance, according to principal Stefano Domenicali.

Domenicali told the Formula One website in an interview published on Tuesday that the team must "make sure that we give them the best car we can. That is the urgent need, and it has to happen very soon."

Alonso placed fourth in the opening two season races in Australia and Malaysia, with the Bahrain race next on Sunday. Raikkonen, who won the last drivers' title for the scuderia in 2007 and returned to the team this season, was seventh in Australia and 12th in Malaysia.

"So far Fernando has proved to be fast immediately. Kimi needs some time to understand the car, but you can see he is getting there. I am sure from the drivers' side there will not be a problem," Domenicali said.

Domenicali admitted that Mercedes are the team to beat after shining in the pre-season and winning the opening races with Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.

"If Mercedes keeps the pace it will be very difficult to match them," he said.

Domenicali said that teams and engine manufacturers like Mercedes had an advantage after sweeping rule changes because they can draw on their wide range of technology and expertise in all areas. But he said Ferrari are ready for the challenge and have invested big in development equipment they didn't have in the past.

"We need to work to have a more efficient car; we need to work to have a better engine; we need to work to exploit better the balance between electric power and traditional engine power. Everywhere!" he said.

"Sure it was more difficult for us - and we knew that. But that is the beauty of the challenge. We have to fight so that we can keep up ... we love the challenge - it has always been part of Ferrari's nature and heritage."

[eugene22n]

I didn't know that it was a part of "Ferrari's nature and heritage" "to fight so that we can keep up"

Ferrari are basically saying that they suck at making a F1 hybrid car. The La Ferrari is pretty good ...

[Jas]

the man frustrates me by the day...and I have always backed him....we all have our limits I guess

[paneristi]

Stefano Domenicali with Fernando Alonso © Action Images
--------

"If Mercedes keeps the pace it will be very difficult to match them," he said.



Does that mean Stefano expects Mercedes to stop developing for awhile?? :roll

[Hornet]

Given all the problems that Ferrari seem to be currently having, I don't think there will be a simple fix for this. I suggest some of you guys not get your hopes up with a lot of the speculation that is out there in terms of updates. It clearly looks like a difficult year ahead especially after James Allison's comments reproduced above...

I agree, but I think most of us already got our hopes too high before the season started :-P I certainly had very high hopes due to the new rules which I expected to change the standing order, as well as the shift of performance focus back to the engine which is Ferrari's strength.

The changes did happen, and engine did took center stage. Unfortunately it just wasn't our engine that came up at the top :-s I'll be a sad puppy if Ferrari doesn't win

[ntukza]

"We need to work to have a
more efficient car; we need to
work to have a better engine;
we need to work to exploit
better the balance between
electric power and traditional
engine power. Everywhere!"

-------------


"In other words you need a new car?"

[ntukza]

Q: Your exit from the Ferrari team
principal position has been predicted
many times. How many more difficult
seasons can you survive?
---------------------------------
SD: I don’t care what people say, because
there are so many people wanting my job.
It is a privilege to be in this position, but
once it is over, don’t worry, I will be
around - not here, but in another place.
That is not a personal problem. Say to all
those jealous people wanting this job:
they have to fight for it!

Disappointing reply in my opinion.

[abbottcostello]

I think Ferrari thought initially that they had given enough time & resources to create a complete PU, but as the deadline closed in they must have known they probably needed another 6 or 8 months to complete the blending of the components & optimize the output of the PU as a whole. I think I tend to take them at their word, saying Merc has a "size" advantage, whether it is sheer number of engineers or just a bigger infrastructure I don't know, but it has surely paid off.

Sometimes it is something as simple as a willingness to embrace new technology right off the hop that gives a group a good start down the right path. Maybe Ferrari were a little too confident or smug, all the talk of "finally the engine will come to the forefront" of the design, might have worked against the team? Probably didn't even realize they might be behind until a while after they had the PU together & were trying to get all the pieces to play in harmony.

I think they will find their way & I hope it is sooner rather than later! I believe James Allison hasn't been with them long enough to dig them out of the deficit, but we should see his skills come to bear with the updates they bring to China & Spain & I will be disappointed if there is not some kind of improvement for Bahrain possibly in the form of software updates to get more power to the pavement.

Being a Ferrari fan for a very long time, of course I've got my hopes up too high Tony! Sometimes it is just the way it has to be, but I have learned to cope with those hopes being dashed enough times, so one more time for the fiery red cars is not hard. As long as there is any faint hope during the season it's all good, if we are not at the top in the end... well it's already time to look ahead to the next season! ;-)
Maybe my abundant patience is just a function of old age or as the commercials here in the US say... Low "T" (for Testosterone I think).
And without any fear of being wrong, I can tell you all, without a doubt, Scuderia Ferrari will be :champ Champions :champ again, just maybe not this year :rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl


(OK, probably not my best post, just needed to counterbalance all the negative posts I've had to endure:wave)

[Jas]

He suggested that a difficult start to the 2014 season for Ferrari is not swaying Santander's loyalty.

"The partnership with Ferrari is the best we have had throughout our history," said Botin. "It is the key for Santander being known around the world."

Botin did, however, ask Domenicali when real improvements for Ferrari's 2014 car will arrive.

"China," the Italian answered. "Good, good," Botin replied.

[Jas]

Disappointing reply in my opinion.

Totally agree, saying pretty much in my eyes...once I **** up Ferrari, ill just join another team and do the same!

[killer]

I agree, but I think most of us already got our hopes too high before the season started :-P I certainly had very high hopes due to the new rules which I expected to change the standing order, as well as the shift of performance focus back to the engine which is Ferrari's strength.

The changes did happen, and engine did took center stage. Unfortunately it just wasn't our engine that came up at the top :-s I'll be a sad puppy if Ferrari doesn't win

Not just yet, I think. The Merc looks mighty but aero has not yet taken a back seat: read Red Bull. But yeah it's another tough year for us, as we need to move forward on both fronts. Maybe our weakness lies in the electric unit; I'm having a hard time understanding Ferrari falling short in the ICE department.

[wernerb3]

Hi, does anyone know what Alonso was looking at after the Malaysia race ? He walked to RB and to Merc
Will be much appreciated :-??

[Senna4Ever]

Hi, does anyone know what Alonso was looking at after the Malaysia race ? He walked to RB and to Merc
Will be much appreciated :-??

the Winner Button on the steering wheel :wave

[wernerb3]

Senna4Ever - Not sure what you mean ? Would you mind to explain :-)

[20000rpm]

Senna4Ever - Not sure what you mean ? Would you mind to explain :-)

A button which makes a car go from a garbage during testing to a super aero car enough to give Mercedes disturbing thoughts...
Mercedes, to see how much we lag in development and then slowly nodding in despair.

[ferrari1.8t]

Hi, does anyone know what Alonso was looking at after the Malaysia race ? He walked to RB and to Merc
Will be much appreciated :-??

Maybe looking for a fuel gauge of sorts to see how much fuel they both had left? What else could he see in the cockpit?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/aza9u4ud.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/vubypu5y.jpg

[Samcar222]

I think he just wants to be photographed peaking into the cars. Politics, nothing else. I'm sure if our car was 1 second faster than everyone else, Vet and Ham would be doing the same. Kind of a "give me a better car guys" statement, without actually saying it. Just my thought.

[Hornet]

Drivers often do that, even if they win. No different than Adrian Newey walking up and down the grid taking notes of other cars. Drivers get the advantage of seeing something up close or into the cockpit. I'm sure Newey would love to do that too if he could.

In F1, you never know what you might find hidden somehere.

[Senna4Ever]

Drivers often do that, even if they win. No different than Adrian Newey walking up and down the grid taking notes of other cars. Drivers get the advantage of seeing something up close or into the cockpit. I'm sure Newey would love to do that too if he could.

In F1, you never know what you might find hidden somehere.

or it is just: where would I fit in best :-)

[Kingdom Hearts]

I think he just wants to be photographed peaking into the cars. Politics, nothing else.

Every time he blinks, politics.

[PadGeT]

Every time he blinks, politics.

:-! This isn't the right place.
By day way, regarding the pic, IMO Alonso is looking at their clutch systems.

[Tony]

I agree, but I think most of us already got our hopes too high before the season started :-P I certainly had very high hopes due to the new rules which I expected to change the standing order, as well as the shift of performance focus back to the engine which is Ferrari's strength.

The changes did happen, and engine did took center stage. Unfortunately it just wasn't our engine that came up at the top :-s I'll be a sad puppy if Ferrari doesn't win

Anything is possible and Ferrari very much might turn it around but if by the European round Ferrari are still behind I think it will pretty much be over for this year's campaign. That doesn't mean that Ferrari should stop developing though as whatever they learn this year should still be applicable to next year... I guess we'll see what happens :)

[shamim179]

:-! This isn't the right place.
By day way, regarding the pic, IMO Alonso is looking at their clutch systems.

Sure he is. He's looking to see how he fits inside the car. He's not going to be brave enough to go and sit inside - he and nobody else wants another ear tweak. At least he wasn't caught drinking Red Bull. That would definitely deserve an ear tweak!

[PadGeT]

This thread is getting side tracked unfortunately.

[gjoko-mkd]

Maybe looking for a fuel gauge of sorts to see how much fuel they both had left? What else could he see in the cockpit?



I think Alonso is looking the position of the button on the steering wheel.There are a lot of informations for the set of of the car

[stefa]

Given all the problems that Ferrari seem to be currently having, I don't think there will be a simple fix for this. I suggest some of you guys not get your hopes up with a lot of the speculation that is out there in terms of updates. It clearly looks like a difficult year ahead especially after James Allison's comments reproduced above...

You took words from my mouth....

[mark p]

Anything is possible and Ferrari very much might turn it around but if by the European round Ferrari are still behind I think it will pretty much be over for this year's campaign. That doesn't mean that Ferrari should stop developing though as whatever they learn this year should still be applicable to next year... I guess we'll see what happens :)

Whatever happens this year Ferrari must close the gap to Merc by a decent amount even if they never become faster as if they cannot get closer why would future years be any better. This year is different to any other years however as scope for huge jumps in performance is possible. It appears pu is main issue and same for RedBull but they seem ahead for now. Thing is Australia Ferrari had a few issues but Malaysia is more aero dependent and RedBull and Ferrari probably ran to max in their current situation. Bahrain could well lead to Ferrari beating RedBull due to track characteristics but my personal opinion is one if not both these teams are best placed to pull closer to Merc not just for this year but future years under these rules.

[Ferris]

We have issues with traction and top speed... Something you need in abundance on this track. The RB has the best traction. If they get ahead of us in the race we wont be able to reel them in and pass them unless we bring a good upgrade to assist us in traction zones. This weekend we will be fighting off Williams and Force India and wont be anywhere near the podium without a decent upgrade in traction.

[tifosi1993]

Sakhir International Circuit, Bahrain (03/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/cHdZi22.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/C8FuuRB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BAvUKHd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UvfcqVt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tyJhyDc.jpg

[PadGeT]

Interesting that teams up and down the pit lane gone diff paths in installing their radiators and intercoolers.(in red)
In case of RBR we see almost horizontal placement so as to maximize the space underneath for cooling air. Much of the cooling going on in the low deck of the car. This helps with the sidepod airflow philosophy of a high rake car preseve its low CG/center of pressure.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img580/7388/otpk.jpg
Ferrari have placed it slanting it at an acute angle but dats more to do wid their narrow sidepod and weird contours around that area.Lots of cooling still directed at the underneath of sidepod inlet, thats why we see mouth of the sidepod at an offset to the horizontal.
http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ferrari-Formel-1-GP-Malaysia-26-Maerz-2014-fotoshowBigImage-b9c83c8f-766804.jpg
Compare this wid Lotus and Mclaren
http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Lotus-Formel-1-GP-Malaysia-26-Maerz-2014-fotoshowBigImage-32c39b72-766805.jpg
Lotus has almost a vertical orientation, result - sidepod design with narrow width but long final height.
http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/McLaren-Formel-1-GP-Malaysia-26-Maerz-2014-fotoshowBigImage-499640b4-766807.jpg
Mclaren completes the cycle. placed at an obtuse angle, much of its cooling air is directed upwards.

[f1tomi8]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari will debut a software patch tomorrow aimed at optimizing the ERS. Raikkonen will get a modified front suspension. #F1 #Formula1
I wait...

[Kiwi Nick]

I wait...we all wait!

[Kiwi Nick]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari will debut a software patch tomorrow aimed at optimizing the ERS. Raikkonen will get a modified front suspension. #F1 #Formula1
I wait...

PitLaneTalk said, "The quickest way would be to induce oversteer aerodynamically, which is why Ferrari will manufacture new parts for Raikkonen to solve his problems." Sounds to me like they are expecting some new aero bits, not suspension modifications.

[Rosso Corsa]

PitLaneTalk said, "The quickest way would be to induce oversteer aerodynamically, which is why Ferrari will manufacture new parts for Raikkonen to solve his problems." Sounds to me like they are expecting some new aero bits, not suspension modifications.

Does Kimi want more understeer?

[RedPassion]

Does Kimi want more understeer?
No the opposite.

[Winter]

Does Kimi want more understeer?

Very unlikely..

[bondilad]

PitLaneTalk said, "The quickest way would be to induce oversteer aerodynamically, which is why Ferrari will manufacture new parts for Raikkonen to solve his problems." Sounds to me like they are expecting some new aero bits, not suspension modifications.


NEW PARTS ARRIVED FOR RAIKKONEN

Raikkonen has endured a tougher start to the season than team-mateFernando Alonso because he has struggled to get comfortable with the front end of the car.

The team has focused on trying to improve the interaction of its energy harvesting, which has affected braking.

AUTOSPORT understands that revised suspension components will be tried out by Ferrari in Bahrain this weekend to help improve the front of the car further.

Despite the arrival of the new parts, Raikkonen is cautious about how quickly his problems will be fully solved, even though there were signs of progress in Malaysia.

"Overall we were much better but we were not where we wanted to be," he explained.

"There are a lot of things to improve in all areas, but we have all the right people and all the tools to fix those things.

"But those things are not easy to fix and I am sure it will take time. But we know where we want to be and where we are aiming, and we are going to get there.

"Hopefully we'll get some better results here now if we can start a similar way in the last race, but not having the issues we had in the race

[Paulpg87]

sauber director saying the problem is ferrari power unit and their car being overweight. The thing really me off is that we always wanted an "engine" formula and then we made the worst engine.. ferrari being even worse than renault is more than a shame.

[FerrariF60]

sauber director saying the problem is ferrari power unit and their car being overweight. The thing really me off is that we always wanted an "engine" formula and then we made the worst engine.. ferrari being even worse than renault is more than a shame.

those are just RUMORS, until i read something on a more credible site like autosport.com, from the Ferrari team themselves that their power unit is "overweight" i will take as JUST taht....rumors

but if it is indeed TRUE, than yes, all i can say is: SHAME ferrari for demanding all this time formula 1 to me more about engines than AERO, just to come up with the heaviest and less powerful engine.

[Ferris]

PitLaneTalk said, "The quickest way would be to induce oversteer aerodynamically, which is why Ferrari will manufacture new parts for Raikkonen to solve his problems." Sounds to me like they are expecting some new aero bits, not suspension modifications.

I don't think so. The solution will likely be mechanical as it is about giving kimi more feel for the front end. If it's a aero mod at the front it will not be useful in the low speed stuff and will compromise the rest of the aero design.

[Jas]

I doubt they will make specific aero parts as that will require two different sets of development paths between Alonso and raikonen presuming they don't use the same!

[Ferris]

I doubt they will make specific aero parts as that will require two different sets of development paths between Alonso and raikonen presuming they don't use the same!

Exactly

[Ed Harley]

According to Toni Vilander front suspension of the KR's car is too stiff for his liking and produces understeering as a result and that is bad as KR wants an oversteering car. Apparently that is something that cannot be corrected with set up only so so certain things need to be changed. What is encouraging is that team reacts to this problem rather quickly now.

[Ferris]

Interesting comparison...
http://i.imgur.com/E2S3qeJ.jpg

[tifosi1993]

Hülkenberg : "For me, the Red Bull has the best chassis. No other car steers like that, no other car exits the corners better. Mercedes and Ferrari are not far behind. The Ferrari is really good in the corners"

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/wer-hat-das-beste-auto-red-bull-vor-mercedes-und-ferrari-8226134.html

[Paulpg87]

those are just RUMORS, until i read something on a more credible site like autosport.com, from the Ferrari team themselves that their power unit is "overweight" i will take as JUST taht....rumors

but if it is indeed TRUE, than yes, all i can say is: SHAME ferrari for demanding all this time formula 1 to me more about engines than AERO, just to come up with the heaviest and less powerful engine.

their car overweight i mean sauber.. however you can find the interview to the sauber director (the woman.. do not remeber the name) on f1passion.it

[Rosso Corsa]

Does Kimi want more understeer?


No the opposite.

That's what I thought. Was confused pitlanetalk used the words "to induce oversteer aerodynamically". Yet another source that talks tripe.

[Senna4Ever]

those are just RUMORS, until i read something on a more credible site like autosport.com, from the Ferrari team themselves that their power unit is "overweight" i will take as JUST taht....rumors
but if it is indeed TRUE, than yes, all i can say is: SHAME ferrari for demanding all this time formula 1 to me more about engines than AERO, just to come up with the heaviest and less powerful engine.

do you really expect an official statement from FERRARI that our engine might be behind Merc and Renault (so the first from behind) while FERRARI was requesting a F1 which is more related to engine?
Sorry but I see devil praying in a church long before this would happen ...

[Laferrari]

actually , they already let a message that we are behind in PU....about some head change in PU departement in maranello(after fiasco of melbourne).
They made some stupid decision about the engine ERS problem , the aero departementt(pull rod basic front wing same develop as a caterham or marussia), management let dominicali as a TP of ferrari.So nothing suprise me now(about no upgrade in this race ...first will come after 4 or 5 gp).I bet that after barcelone alonso will claim that the part will give us 3 or 4 tenth and we will say basicly all the teams will improve so nothing will change.Same like every year.

[zike]

actually , they already let a message that we are behind in PU....about some head change in PU departement in maranello(after fiasco of melbourne).
They made some stupid decision about the engine ERS problem , the aero departementt(pull rod basic front wing same develop as a caterham or marussia), management let dominicali as a TP of ferrari.So nothing suprise me now(about no upgrade in this race ...first will come after 4 or 5 gp).I bet that after barcelone alonso will claim that the part will give us 3 or 4 tenth and we will say basicly all the teams will improve so nothing will change.Same like every year.

:thumb:thumb

[shamim179]

their car overweight i mean sauber.. however you can find the interview to the sauber director (the woman.. do not remeber the name) on f1passion.it

Her name's Monisha. She was saying how it's down on power and heavy. And it's not only her that is saying these things. Sutil is also saying such things. It's embarrassing when one of our customer teams complain of us so openly and so soon into the season. Ferrari have clearly disappointed in this respect.

[Cemz85]

Enzo; aerodynamics are for those that can't build engines..

Ooh boy would he be ashamed if he was alive now

[Kiwi Nick]

Enzo; aerodynamics are for those that can't build engines..

Ooh boy would he be ashamed if he was alive now

Unfortunately for Ferrari, they have to build Power Units.

[Nero Horse]

Unfortunately for Ferrari, they have to build Power Units.

Yes, exactly, it's not just about building a good engine now, it's about getting the entire power unit (engine + ERS) to work properly. So it's much more complicated.

[declanvdb]

hi been watching this site for years and finally joined :) was just gonna say did anyone else see on sky sports about mercs pace and where it comes from ? apparently its a 'trick turbo layout' good read and explains alot about there pace if true http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/9243875/revealed-how-mercedes-packaging-of-their-turbo-engine-has-given-them-the-edge

[tifosi1993]

Sakhir International Circuit, Bahrain (04/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/wjl5yr8l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/wjl5yr8.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ZJ8lPRrl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ZJ8lPRr.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/3EcX27Nl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/3EcX27N.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/6Mh14rUl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/6Mh14rU.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/9Fykprul.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9Fykpru.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/pqSLVTvl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/pqSLVTv.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/mDwrdG0l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/mDwrdG0.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/UMwWNbQl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/UMwWNbQ.jpg)

Edit:

http://i.imgur.com/i4VtW1Ul.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/i4VtW1U.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/SAwIaEUl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/SAwIaEU.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/690E34Hl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/690E34H.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/zGeGrydl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/zGeGryd.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/kZS9CGel.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/kZS9CGe.jpg)

[PadGeT]

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ferrari-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-4-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-77164bfe-769561.jpg
Wern't those vertical strakes asymmetrically aligned? I recall they had pretty unequal distances among each other.
For comparison pic from Australia:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BimGfmKIIAAR-CJ.jpg:large
Or is it my eyes are paying tricks?

[Kiwi Nick]

Why is Alonso going out on a mixed set of tires? Yellow front, white rear...I believe that is against the regulations.

[Majki2111]

What updatees are expected in China? I know a lot, but i never read what...

[Hornet]

Why is Alonso going out on a mixed set of tires? Yellow front, white rear...I believe that is against the regulations.

It was a mistake, the put on the wrong tires

[Winter]

Yes, exactly, it's not just about building a good engine now, it's about getting the entire power unit (engine + ERS) to work properly. So it's much more complicated.


But, even if we have some problems with this ERS-unit, we are even more behind in combustion-unit(ENGINE) performance.
If there's any truth behind those rumours that Mercedes ICE produce 50-70hp more than us due that innovative turbine---V----compressor solution, there are no excuses,
we are beaten in something we should be the best at.

[Jas]

Picked out some bits relevant to us....UNFORTUNATLY WE DID NOT ANSWER THE WEIGHT QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for that, Pat. Coming to Luigi Fraboni - welcome. [Luigi is] head of track engineering for Ferrari on the engine side. Talk to us about the achievement of getting these very complex machines - the power units - operational and racing to the point we are now, particularly from where we were in testing here in Bahrain only a few weeks ago.
Luigi Fraboni: Of course for us and for all the other manufacturers of engines it was a very hard job. Honestly, looking at what we have now and what we were in the end of January, for me it is close to being a miracle. Of course the result we have achieved is due to the job of everyone in Ferrari, everyone at home and everyone here at the track. It’s something that we are still developing and there are a lot of things to learn. Basically with every run you learn something and every run you try to put something in the power units for the following one. I think that for us there are still a lot of things to do but there are a lot of jobs we have already done and we are very happy about this.

Q: Talk about the strengths and weaknesses of the Ferrari power unit as you see it at the moment?
LF: Well, of course, I think it’s quite early to say but in the first two races having four Ferrari engines on our side that saw the chequered flag I think is a very good result, as you said thinking about where we are in the end of January. And then so we also start to see the real reliability of the power unit because this is basically the third race for someone and they start to be above 2,000km by the end of this weekend and for sure I hope this is one of our strengths. In terms of mapping and in terms of fuel consumption I think we are in quite a good shape. Of course in terms of absolute power this is something… you can see there lap time between the car, there is a difference of speed between the cars but the difference of speed is not only the power unit. So we have some ideas. We know we have to improve on our side on the power unit but this is also car related so we’ll have to do the best on this.

Q: (Vincent Marre - Sports Zeitung) We have seen now the differences between the engine. My question is, let’s assume - just assume - that at the end of the season you will achieve 100 per cent of the potential of your engine. What percentage are you today in the round, in terms of performance of this engine?
LF: I if look at what we have done in these two months, I think that we are already at 70-80 per cent of the potential. I hope we will get the rest in the next two months. I am confident of this.
RT: I think it’s a very, very difficult question. Whether to know what is the potential we’ve got in the engine at the right time here, we know. Whether we will be at that potential tomorrow, I hope we will be much further than that, so it’s very difficult to answer. Let’s put it this way: we know we have quite a lot of potential and we can’t get the most out of it. Maybe it’s 20 or 30 per cent, we don’t know. But of course I think we will have, I hope, another 20, 30 per cent more by the end of the years. It’s all the difficulties to know where we’re going to get to by the end of the year - and that’s the work with this new power unit. We just keep on developing and sometimes you will find out something completely different and you get the lap time out of it. It’s part of the game

Q: (Luc Domenjoz - Le Matin)It seems that some cars have trouble meeting the minimum weight requirements so the question to the technical directors is: did you set specific weight requirements to your drivers, and what do you think of the fact that some drivers do not drink any liquid during the race just to save an extra kilo?
PS:inly maintain weight and in fact perhaps lose a kilo or two but I’m happy to say that we don’t have a weight problem on our car so the drivers are allowed to have a drink bottle in there. We do carry ballast on the car, we’re pretty happy with things.
AN: We’re certainly right on the edge of the weight limit with both drivers and our drivers are on the lighter end. I think the power units have come out heavier than expected and that’s putting a lot of pressure on the teams. It’s another hidden factor that drives the cost up because saving weight tends to be a very expensive business.
PL: The job of a driver getting to his optimum weight has always been there and the thing is you always want the driver at the lowest weight possible while maintaining his health and fitness because he needs to drive properly through the whole race. That’s a training task so our drivers have pursued that over the winter just as normal to make sure they’re at that optimum. There’s no issue that I’m aware of in terms of drinking during the race. You need to drink to stay healthy.

Q: (Michael Schmidt - Auto Motor und Sport) Remi, you introduced on two of your teams today a second generation of engine. Does this apply for all six components or was only part of the components new?
RT: I think you will have the answer quite soon from the FIA papers that you will receive maybe tomorrow. It is of course a brand new V6 we introduce but I will not go into details at that moment. You will know tomorrow.

[Nero Horse]

But, even if we have some problems with this ERS-unit, we are even more behind in combustion-unit(ENGINE) performance.
If there's any truth behind those rumours that Mercedes ICE produce 50-70hp more than us due that innovative turbine---V----compressor solution, there are no excuses,
we are beaten in something we should be the best at.

We have the same engine layout as Merc...

http://i.imgur.com/E5AbgJo.png

And we might be behind right now but we'll catch up sooner or later, I have no doubt about that.

[Jas]

hope that's true...even if it is not as good, it gives us hope we havnt completely messed up

[Nand0Nand0]

From the limited pictures we've seen I'd say you can count out that we have that configuration. Not sure it has any worth either. You pay a big weight penalty for starters.

[Muhammad Ansib]

We have the same engine layout as Merc...

http://i.imgur.com/E5AbgJo.png

And we might be behind right now but we'll catch up sooner or later, I have no doubt about that.
I pray to God that its true. so this shows that we have good potential and we can catch up soon

[Hornet]

I would wait for a picture confirmation first.

[Bertie]

Just a thought/question about the ECU maps etc

With the new rules the electrical energy is transfered to the track in an intergrated way not at the drivers request as KERS was. Is it possible (allowed by the rules) for the on board computer to use positional information about where the car is on the track (GPS) for the deployment electric power?

If possible and if its not currently done there is potential for improved performance e.g. take sepang 3rd sector the ECU could anticipate the change from fast flowing sector 2 and switch engine map automatically (this is normally done manually by the driver). If this automatic optimisation effect is multiplied many times (e.g. 1/sec) then the this would provide a better PU usage than a driver controlled system could aswell as removing a distraction from the driver.

If GPS info is not allowed by the rules under no comunication from pit wall to car then the driver could provide this positional information at specified points e.g as they pass each sector marking (obviously the more points the better as would be more accurate). The computer could then extrapolate the cars movement on track by using speed/rpm and yaw values that are measured by the car already.

The same thing could be done for the harvesting priorities and brake by wire.

Am I talking rubbish?

[PadGeT]

http://images.adrivo.com/images/950/q_80/sw_adrivo/se_sutton/0570864.jpg
Interesting, RBR, Ferrari prefer running without monkey seat.

[Bertie]

Interesting, RBR, Ferrari prefer running without monkey seat.

Don't think its a preference, it needs to be sacrificed for top end speed.

[tifosi1993]

Sakhir International Circuit, Bahrain (05/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/jfSBvpQl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/jfSBvpQ.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/fw5Auall.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/fw5Aual.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/M1BigRul.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/M1BigRu.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/gtfDCQQl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/gtfDCQQ.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/GO7sCsNl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/GO7sCsN.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/iD59CYPl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/iD59CYP.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/BRylQkdl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/BRylQkd.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/Wmq8Vq7l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Wmq8Vq7.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/E4WNS25l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/E4WNS25.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ljdHVyel.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ljdHVye.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/fgHjClTl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/fgHjClT.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/GRu5Pq5l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/GRu5Pq5.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/UWCEmSel.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/UWCEmSe.jpg)

[RedPassion]

The sidepods fins connetted with the floor is much larger an inwards than before,look at the 4th photos upside.

[F14T]

Know its a bit late but are there any updates for this weekend, both mechanical or aero.

[Hornet]

This is the clearest picture I've came across yet of Ferrari's PU, on the Marussia car. Maybe someone can tell if the compressor is located at the rear of the engine or not :Hmm
http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Marussia-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-3-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-1c11f33e-769436.jpg

[Avanzamento]

Credits go to Blackout from f1technical.net

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/marussia-mr03/

5803
5804

[Majki2111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tO6ksRo_Q

[bobi_ve]

It's totally ironical what Todt yesterday said:
"“Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year,” said Todt. “Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.”

But he and all FIA authorities forget about at first first plan (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/10/7037.html) and second that all 3 engine manufacturers had only 2 and a quarter legal winter test session (only 9 days) before "engine development freezing."
And this were stated by FIA as "engine development freezing" not "PU development freezing."

Other problem was prohibition of new engine testing with a legal F1 car on track for last 5 years.

They even hadn't whole 3 test sessions (12 days) before engine development freezing on 28 Feb.

So what is point if other 2 engine manufacturers Ferrari or Renault have better built ICE but not whole PU package.

If FIA really plans to create more "engine war in F1" it would be way better and fairly to extend PU testing and development lets say for whole 2014 season and giving the same for Honda tests with 2-3 years old Mclaren car this year on some F1 track.

In same time they would increase actual engine battle in 2014 and prevent Honda for gaining competitive advantage compared to the others.(Some info says that Honda already have blue prints of Mercedes engine.)

[Hornet]

Luca DM have said he isn't trying to seek immediate changes this year, and he understands Merc position (in the interview shown on Sky just now). Doesn't appear that Luca's issue is with the engine itself either, but with the limits that forces driver to be conservative. He specifically mentioned the fuel flow thing.

I think FIA needs to stop using Merc's success as a defense. Everyone knows they are doing a better job, but we're talking about what we can change next season to improve it. And although the teams knew what engine they would use, I doubt anyone knew how bad the outcome would be. Therefore they have to react to the problem and not just ignore it saying oh everyone knew about the rules.

[Nero Horse]

Kind of an off-topic question, but does anyone know whatever happened to Paolo Martinelli? Why wasn't he involved in the development of this new turbo engine? :Hmm

[PadGeT]

This is the clearest picture I've came across yet of Ferrari's PU, on the Marussia car. Maybe someone can tell if the compressor is located at the rear of the engine or not :Hmm
http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Marussia-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-3-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-1c11f33e-769436.jpg

Think its located near the front.The black box at the bulkhead is the supposed turbo housing i guess. So the inline V6 must be below that.The turbine must be on the opp side of the turbo shaft that connects it with the compressor, closer to the exhaust manifolds. Battery is placed inside the cavity under the chassis and above the floor as dictaced by regs.

[PadGeT]

Kind of an off-topic question, but does anyone know whatever happened to Paolo Martinelli? Why wasn't he involved in the development of this new turbo engine? :Hmm

In October 2006, Martinelli moved to an executive role within Fiat, Ferrari's parent company.His position in Ferrari was taken over by Gilles Simon

[Nero Horse]

In October 2006, Martinelli moved to an executive role within Fiat, Ferrari's parent company.His position in Ferrari was taken over by Gilles Simon

Ok, thanks for the info. Bhoy, we sure could've used Martinelli's knowledge and experience in the development phase of this new engine. His amazing V10's were absolute monsters back in the day and I'm sure he could've helped us a lot this time as well.

[PadGeT]

IMO Giles Simon was the real genius.Shame he was pushed for the FIA job.

[Nero Horse]

IMO Giles Simon was the real genius.Shame he was pushed for the FIA job.

Simon became the head of the engine department in 2007 but our glory days engines from 1999-2004 were all developed under Martinelli's supervision.

[PadGeT]

I hope we are still not suffering from y250 vortex drag penalties like last season.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wOQ_4crf--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/1972vtg0j88e1gif.gif
I am not sure if we are still not properly utilising the effect of underbody vortices. This makes us not make efficeient use the limited undertray to generate downforce. Afraid we arent properly using the vortices to seal the undertray and better control the flow direction to feed the diffuser. This was apparent is testing in Jerez, when we tried out two different iterations of diffuser.
This is where is think Red Bull are ahead at the moment. They run visibly high rake than any manufacturers.They are able to exploit the groundeffect D/F more than any other team.

[tifosi1993]

Sakhir International Circuit, Bahrain (06/04/2014)

http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-00067.jpg
http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-00024.jpg
http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-00056.jpg
http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-b-00069.jpg
http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-c-00026.jpg
http://f1grandprix.motorionline.com/download/foto2014/GP_BAHRAIN/DOMENICA/f1-gp-bahrain-2014-gara-b-00055.jpg

[Muhammad Ansib]

I hope we are still not suffering from y250 vortex drag penalties like last season.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wOQ_4crf--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/1972vtg0j88e1gif.gif
I am not sure if we are still not properly utilising the effect of underbody vortices. This makes us not make efficeient use the limited undertray to generate downforce. Afraid we arent properly using the vortices to seal the undertray and better control the flow direction to feed the diffuser. This was apparent is testing in Jerez, when we tried out two different iterations of diffuser.
This is where is think Red Bull are ahead at the moment. They run visibly high rake than any manufacturers.They are able to exploit the groundeffect D/F more than any other team.

Absolutely Amazing these GIF animations. which race ?

[Gould]

Must be last year sometime. It is a V8 car.

[zike]

What can we do with the engine, how to make it more powerful?.......as far as I know we can not do anything with it

[Gerhard Berger]

Absolutely Amazing these GIF animations. which race ?

Austin last year i think.

[wacc]

What can we do with the engine, how to make it more powerful?.......as far as I know we can not do anything with it

They can. They are working to make the power unit operate closer to its full power potential and to optimise power delivery for better traction and driveability. Other thing is that the Merc power unit may have the absolute power potential higher.

[Hornet]

What can we do with the engine, how to make it more powerful?.......as far as I know we can not do anything with it

For this year, we can make reliability upgrades to the engine. And if you are smart enough, you can sneak in some hidden performance behind those reliability upgrades.

[eugene22n]

Renault developed their V8 over the years during the freeze but it sure wasn't overnight but over several years.

I am pessimistic that anything will change drastically in terms of the pecking order of the engines this year. Especially since we aren't likely to see as many engine failures to draw upgrade reasons.

For so many years Ferrari have asked to focus more on the power unit and this is what we got. Now the team can only hope to make up as much as of the gap as possible on the aerodynamics side.

Power heavy tracks are going to be nearly hopeless.

[gazoz]

Renault developed their V8 over the years during the freeze but it sure wasn't overnight but over several years.

I am pessimistic that anything will change drastically in terms of the pecking order of the engines this year. Especially since we aren't likely to see as many engine failures to draw upgrade reasons.

For so many years Ferrari have asked to focus more on the power unit and this is what we got. Now the team can only hope to make up as much as of the gap as possible on the aerodynamics side.

Power heavy tracks are going to be nearly hopeless.

yes but there is so much more than just the power unit , all the electronics that come with it has also played a huge part in F1 and if its not all right then you will suffer as we are

[WS6TransAm01]

yes but there is so much more than just the power unit , all the electronics that come with it has also played a huge part in F1 and if its not all right then you will suffer as we are

I agree. Shot in the dark, but my guess is this was another naturally aspirated ICE formula we would not be in as deep a hole as we are now. If we were, it would be time to pack up and go home. This is the only excuse Ferrari has now. They wanted a focus on engines but not electric motors. Who knows....

[gazoz]

I agree. Shot in the dark, but my guess is this was another naturally aspirated ICE formula we would not be in as deep a hole as we are now. If we were, it would be time to pack up and go home. This is the only excuse Ferrari has now. They wanted a focus on engines but not electric motors. Who knows....

Agree :thumb

[PadGeT]

Getting a bit OT, but who said Ferrari wanted to focus on ICE only? Lets face it, hybrid is the future & one of the reason Ferrari is in F1, is dat it gives them massive opportunity to ramp up R&D studies for new technologies and gradually implement them on their future road cars. In that sense. Ferrari has no excuses.

[RedRebel40]

Even if we hired Adrian Newey not much will change on the car I think. It's not only having good people inside the team but also having them on the right places. You can't let Raikonen design the cars and let Dominicale ride the cars. Its about placing the right people on the right spot. I don't think Dominicale is up to the job to get the most out of the staff. If you see in which way Aldo functions at Mercedes then you can say that we haven't used him very well during the Ferrari days. The 2013 car was designed with the very advanced and good correlating Toyota wind tunnel and still the car wasn't aerodynamic wise the best car. I think we need a proven guy like Ross Brawn to sort things out at Ferrari. He should replace Dominicale as fast as possible.

[PadGeT]

No "Fire Stefano" in this thread plzz.

[DIEK]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 2m
Our sources confirm Ferrari PU is overweight and down on power. Problem is mechanical. Which is bad news because of engine freeze. #F1

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari can improve power delivery and fuel consumption with software. BHP deficit to Mercedes unrecoverable though until 2015. #F

[shamim179]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 2m
Our sources confirm Ferrari PU is overweight and down on power. Problem is mechanical. Which is bad news because of engine freeze. #F1

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari can improve power delivery and fuel consumption with software. BHP deficit to Mercedes unrecoverable though until 2015. #F

That's terrible news! Makes no sense as to why Ferrari were against the car weight increase. It's becoming clearer and clearer that we did a terrible job at developing this engine.

So:

Down on peak power
Overweight
Unstable power delivery
Not the most fuel efficient?

The only good thing about our engine is the small size and reliability although with reliability you have to see how it performs over the course of many races or an entire season so it's not a given that we are really good at that.

[Alonso14]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 2m
Our sources confirm Ferrari PU is overweight and down on power. Problem is mechanical. Which is bad news because of engine freeze. #F1

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari can improve power delivery and fuel consumption with software. BHP deficit to Mercedes unrecoverable though until 2015. #F

How reliable are PitLaneTalk?

And if all this is true - does this mean it's game over for us this season? I don't mean catching the Mercs, I mean in terms of having a podium here and there.

[PadGeT]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 2m
Our sources confirm Ferrari PU is overweight and down on power. Problem is mechanical. Which is bad news because of engine freeze. #F1

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk
Ferrari can improve power delivery and fuel consumption with software. BHP deficit to Mercedes unrecoverable though until 2015. #F
Can anyone clarify whats meant by mechanical problem here?

[Kiwi Nick]

Can anyone clarify whats meant by mechanical problem here?

I assume he means hardware. And, unfortunately, it is the hardware that is homologated.

[DIEK]

How reliable are PitLaneTalk?

And if all this is true - does this mean it's game over for us this season? I don't mean catching the Mercs, I mean in terms of having a podium here and there.

Only has 822 followers on twitter, so maybe not very much reliability...:Hmm

[PURE PASSION]

I really can't believe that we mess it up so badly!!!!:-(

[Rob]

I hope we are still not suffering from y250 vortex drag penalties like last season.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wOQ_4crf--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/1972vtg0j88e1gif.gif
I am not sure if we are still not properly utilising the effect of underbody vortices. This makes us not make efficeient use the limited undertray to generate downforce. Afraid we arent properly using the vortices to seal the undertray and better control the flow direction to feed the diffuser. This was apparent is testing in Jerez, when we tried out two different iterations of diffuser.
This is where is think Red Bull are ahead at the moment. They run visibly high rake than any manufacturers.They are able to exploit the groundeffect D/F more than any other team.

that is last years car.

[JacKy]

Only has 822 followers on twitter, so maybe not very much reliability...:Hmm

Agreed. Obviously we have problem with PU efficiency and overweith but only high ranked team member can know that if we can fix or not this year.

[PadGeT]

that is last years car.

I know, i have written "last season" haven't I?

[PURE PASSION]

On the other hand if it is true that we have unsolved issues, why Alo is even a little bit confibent and say that it is in our hands to catch even the Mercs??

[JacKy]

On the other hand if it is true that we have unsolved issues, why Alo is even a little bit confibent and say that it is in our hands to catch even the Mercs??

It's called as pollyanna

[Alonso14]

On the other hand if it is true that we have unsolved issues, why Alo is even a little bit confibent and say that it is in our hands to catch even the Mercs??

Given our history can he really come out and say without consequences that this season should be written off because our car does not have the potential to the catch the leaders?

[JacKy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuBB2F6IutQ

Sky Sports F1 2014: How Mercedes become so strong in 2014

[PadGeT]

Wow, they couldn't find any other car to compare that ugly mercedes with?
Typical of Sky!!!

[Alonso14]

Ferrari is the only other engine manufacturer who has a team in F1 so that was the obvious choice.

[zike]

Given our history can he really come out and say without consequences that this season should be written off because our car does not have the potential to the catch the leaders?

YES

[PURE PASSION]

Given our history can he really come out and say without consequences that this season should be written off because our car does not have the potential to the catch the leaders?
Well i think that he could be more pessimistic without basing the team!!
But to say that Mercs have done a fandastic job in this first partof the season and that it is in our hands to catch them,well in my eyes this is more then a few fansy words for the media!!!!
Then again it's just me being too optimistic!!!!!

[PadGeT]

Ferrari is the only other engine manufacturer who has a team in F1 so that was the obvious choice.
Red Bull & Renault. Would be funny that comparison. I want to see that plz!!
Besides, how did they know we don't have a split turbo?

[djmorin27]

so been away and totaly disgusted regarding are situation do we no if we are running the turbo and compressor at opposite ends of the pu like mercedes and if we can get are software and mapping straighten out would we be on the same page as the mercs and fight them or have we lost the season already

[Wildcat]

If it's hardware related and no hopes of improving, I'm gonna shoot myself.

Surely, we're better of cheating than not touching the engine. We've got to find something clever and say it's a matter of security.

[Winter]

Red Bull & Renault. Would be funny that comparison. I want to see that plz!!
Besides, how did they know we don't have a split turbo?


There wouldn't be so much contrast. RedBull has pretty tight rear too.

[NickEice]

Realistically the championship is out of the question. However 2nd is very very close amongst the teams. If we can pick up some top end speed we can still leave this season with some respect and a more positive outlook toward the future. The team needs to keep pushing and we need to keep supporting.

[R Ginart]

This statement is so sadly true! What a pathetic and embaressing showing this past weekend!
Realistically the championship is out of the question. However 2nd is very very close amongst the teams. If we can pick up some top end speed we can still leave this season with some respect and a more positive outlook toward the future. The team needs to keep pushing and we need to keep supporting.

[windwaves]

from what we have witnessed so far I would be very very surprised we can fight for second. I expect RB, Williams, FI and McL to solidify their advantage over Ferrari, it is my gut feeling again based upon what we have seen so far.

I just cannot imagine that our problems are solvable this season. Too many issues, too many flaws in every area of the car, the F14T simply ill conceived.

If we now start focusing on the needed changes and I mean NOW, we can hope for a better 2015 and may be getting back into the real fight in 2016. The key for Ferrari now is complete overhaul, a new start from scratch. Now.

We will have a clear indication the next couple of days: two crucial days of testing where we will not be able to accomplish absolutely nothing.

Yes, I wish I was wrong…..

[diesel08]

If in Spain we don't made a clear step in perfomance, well, than we can start to work and concentrate all the efforts to 2015.

[PURE PASSION]

I remember another tweet that said that concerning the ice, we are on the same level as Mercs and that it's the electric motors and the use of it that we are struggling!!!!

[brembo man]

Well i think that he could be more pessimistic without basing the team!!
But to say that Mercs have done a fandastic job in this first partof the season and that it is in our hands to catch them,well in my eyes this is more then a few fansy words for the media!!!!
Then again it's just me being too optimistic!!!!!

Your not being too optimistic, it's just Pure Passion on your part! :rotfl And I too believe were still in it for this year for sure.

[tifosi1993]

Official In-season Testing, Bahrain (Day-1, 08/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/otuG0rql.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/otuG0rq.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/rfBOaKdl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/rfBOaKd.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/aD5JN7Sl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/aD5JN7S.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/l7mSuvnl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/l7mSuvn.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/OT2hN9al.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OT2hN9a.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/7ETfW2jl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/7ETfW2j.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/RCh1usKl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/RCh1usK.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/46yabaNl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/46yabaN.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/3eQyTBsl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/3eQyTBs.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/aWU0kRdl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/aWU0kRd.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/iL0pJOXl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/iL0pJOX.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/Fqz3Fdel.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Fqz3Fde.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/OJsZdjnl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OJsZdjn.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/sMzestFl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/sMzestF.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/TUCOLYvl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TUCOLYv.jpg)

[paneristi]

and if we cannot make it in 2015, either? I believe I've heard this over and over again for several years now. Other teams have down the same thing and succeeded, showed significant improvement, while we are the one that's supposed to be the benchmark of Formula 1, we just simply don't deliver.
If in Spain we don't made a clear step in perfomance, well, than we can start to work and concentrate all the efforts to 2015.

[PadGeT]

There wouldn't be so much contrast. RedBull has pretty tight rear too.
Would be funny to see Brundle explain why that is and its influence on turbo positioning
By da way you didn't answer my 2nd question
. :lou

[JacKy]

http://i.imgur.com/EITaDnP.png

Is this brake duct legal?

[PadGeT]

Why not, It isnt moving is it?

[Alonso14]

Didn't Lotus run similar ducts (a bit smaller) in Bahrain?

http://thef1team.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/2014-bahrain-wintertesting-f1-fansite_00003.jpg

[RedPassion]

Didn't Lotus run similar ducts (a bit smaller) in Bahrain?

http://thef1team.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/2014-bahrain-wintertesting-f1-fansite_00003.jpg
Isnt a bit smaller not an understatement?They were a lot smaller.

[Alonso14]

In Bahrain Lotus have an interesting little feature on the inside of their front brake ducts. These ducts are only meant to cool the brakes, but there is an open area in the regulations within which the teams can do what they want. The brake duct opening itself is there to flow air through the brake disc. Carbon brake discs work properly at between 300 and 800 degrees Celsius. Below that they don't have any stopping power; above it and the wear rate of the carbon increases dramatically. All the other pieces on the duct are aerodynamic vanes of some sort, helping to manage the airflow around the front tyre. At Sakhir, the E22 has three small triangles (red arrow) at the top of the duct. These will induce a vortex, which as it increases in size will pull airflow from in front of the tyre and disperse it behind the tyre. Managing the airflow in this area means that the underfloor receives better quality airflow, allowing it to produce more downforce.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/916/1172.html

[PadGeT]

Keep the infos coming, guyz!! :thumb
Interesting, teams been fiddling wid their brake ducts both on front and rear tyres aerodynamically.

[Kyss4k]

Is this brake duct legal?

5813

[f1tomi8]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 21 p
Ferrari will introduce 2nd generation PU in China along with larger brake duct inlets and sidepods. Slimmer bodywork planned for Spain.#F1


The team has been working on improving car balance at corner entry and exit today along with aero measurements and a new software test. #F1

[Hornet]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 21 p
Ferrari will introduce 2nd generation PU in China along with larger brake duct inlets and sidepods. Slimmer bodywork planned for Spain.#F1


The team has been working on improving car balance at corner entry and exit today along with aero measurements and a new software test. #F1

Would be interesting if true, but isn't "2nd generation" somewhat too big of a change considering that the engine is homologated for this year. I think they are only allow to make reliability upgrades :Hmm

[SilverSpeed]

2nd gen = 1st PU version running at 100% maybe :-D.
But then they need more cooling so bigger sidepods.

[jragona]

I never understood the point of creating new road-relevent engines that will facilitate technology transfer to the good of everyone, but the engines cannot be developed and so their purpose is moot.

Now we have Mercedes with a great engine that Ferrari may not be able to match due to silly rules limiting teams and ultimately the competition.

I sincerely hope they will not only match, but beat Merc very soon!

[Alesi1]

I never understood the point of creating new road-relevent engines that will facilitate technology transfer to the good of everyone, but the engines cannot be developed and so their purpose is moot.

Now we have Mercedes with a great engine that Ferrari may not be able to match due to silly rules limiting teams and ultimately the competition.

I sincerely hope they will not only match, but beat Merc very soon!

+1

[Nero Horse]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 21 p
Ferrari will introduce 2nd generation PU in China along with larger brake duct inlets and sidepods. Slimmer bodywork planned for Spain.#F1


The team has been working on improving car balance at corner entry and exit today along with aero measurements and a new software test. #F1

That sounds really good and all, but the problem is that others, including Merc, will be bringing lots of updates as well. But, we just have to be positive and hope that we'll bring better updates than them. :-)

[Red is Best]

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk 21 p
Ferrari will introduce 2nd generation PU in China along with larger brake duct inlets and sidepods. Slimmer bodywork planned for Spain.#F1


The team has been working on improving car balance at corner entry and exit today along with aero measurements and a new software test. #F1

2nd generation PU?
Isn't there a development freeze on the PU's? Or does it only concern the engine? It's hard to keep track with all these rules :-D

[PadGeT]

Can anyone translate whats being said here ?
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2v8pdlz.jpg
From what i can make out, they are talking about MGU-K & turbine.As usual they havent shown where the intercooler connects.Not sure about MGU-H either(must be near turbo).Other than that, they pretty much shown other components, even shows the gearbox.

[Smintlemon]

From what i understand is that the mgu-h is installed in the v shape from the motor (Upper arrow) but it is Not as far developed äs merc. Pu.

[AfterLife]

and my understanding is... it is drawing of a power unit and there is a Ferrari logo and some writings. Wait... i see two arrows too :-E

[mark p]

2nd generation PU?
Isn't there a development freeze on the PU's? Or does it only concern the engine? It's hard to keep track with all these rules :-D

It's a stupid rule for politics. In reality they can change loads under the guise of reliability.

That above rumour mentions bigger sidepods? Or is it written strange and means new bigger brake ducts and new sidepods?

[Nero Horse]

It's a stupid rule for politics. In reality they can change loads under the guise of reliability.

Yes, exactly.

[Winter]

It's a stupid rule for politics. In reality they can change loads under the guise of reliability.

That above rumour mentions bigger sidepods? Or is it written strange and means new bigger brake ducts and new sidepods?

And the first succesfull upgrade is followed by protest from other teams I guess.

[Lebaronrouge]

Hello people (first sorry for my English, you all know that french people are the worst concerning the other languages :P )
If i can give my opinion, i don't really think that Ferrari need a lot more power. You can analyze carefully two key moment of this short season : The qualification in Bahrain and the last stint of Alonso in Malaysia. All this moment suggest that we are able to go faster than what Ferrari shows in a race.
The pace during the qualification is reasonably good (Kimi in Bahrain), and the same for the pace in the last stint in Malaysia. Normally the key moment where you need the more power is during the qualification. So you can imagine that if we suffer from a lack of power our qualification should have been worst than the race... but it is the opposite. And during the malaysian grand prix, we have shown that we are able to have a good pace.

Taking together these elements tends to show that our PU has it own power but we can't use it all the time. Maybe due to some reliability problems.

After that the FOM give us some interesting elements to understand the race : The fuel consumption. We have all notice the bad consumption from Alonso this sunday during the race and more generally, Mercedes PU are the best. After that we have notice the extreme difficulties during acceleration.

So for me our main problem is the avaibility of the max power delivers by our engine and this is related to our ERS. During the race, it's very hard to run it at its maximum, so to compensate we use our engine at a high level which induce an increase in fuel consumption. At the opposite, Mercedes teams can use their ERS everytime they want, so they reduce the use of their engine and that reduce the consumption.
But we can improve our ERS, how it works.

[mark p]

And the first succesfull upgrade is followed by protest from other teams I guess.

As mentioned it's political. Ferrari and Renault will get changes Merc will not get same freedoms until like the v8 era differences are so small as not to matter. In v8 era Renault got many changrs until power wise they were there or there abouts. Merc got a jump others will get big changes until nothing in it. Soon we will see 1st round of changes then a few races later more. By start of next year all will be equal, maybe sooner. Would be a shock if Ferrari and Renault had not got a pipeline of upgrades planned after the 1st test.

[Winter]

As mentioned it's political. Ferrari and Renault will get changes Merc will not get same freedoms until like the v8 era differences are so small as not to matter. In v8 era Renault got many changrs until power wise they were there or there abouts. Merc got a jump others will get big changes until nothing in it. Soon we will see 1st round of changes then a few races later more. By start of next year all will be equal, maybe sooner. Would be a shock if Ferrari and Renault had not got a pipeline of upgrades planned after the 1st test.

If it's like that, then the whole freezing thing actually makes some sense and those power differences will be leveled even faster than without it. If I got it right, that freezing is a tool for FIA to control who can upgrade their engine and who can not.

[mark p]

If it's like that, then the whole freezing thing actually makes some sense and those power differences will be leveled even faster than without it. If I got it right, that freezing is a tool for FIA to control who can upgrade their engine and who can not.

Exactly. FIA get everyone excited about engine development but as soon as the season starts they control the pace of who does what to get equality. Would be cheaper to spec the engines rather than this game. If Ferrari were in Mercs position we would all be furious but we all seem happy that what I mentioned earlier will be the probable outcome?

[Winter]

Exactly. FIA get everyone excited about engine development but as soon as the season starts they control the pace of who does what to get equality. Would be cheaper to spec the engines rather than this game. If Ferrari were in Mercs position we would all be furious but we all seem happy that what I mentioned earlier will be the probable outcome?

Hope(and starting to think) that you are right and if you are, I owe FIA a apology for some of my previous comments about the matter :oops

[Nero Horse]

As mentioned it's political. Ferrari and Renault will get changes Merc will not get same freedoms until like the v8 era differences are so small as not to matter. In v8 era Renault got many changrs until power wise they were there or there abouts. Merc got a jump others will get big changes until nothing in it. Soon we will see 1st round of changes then a few races later more. By start of next year all will be equal, maybe sooner. Would be a shock if Ferrari and Renault had not got a pipeline of upgrades planned after the 1st test.

Yea, a lot of people seem to be under the impression that with this engine freeze rule engine manufacturers can't develop their engines anymore, but that's not the case at all, they can, but they just need to be clever. So sooner or later, Ferrari will catch up with Merc anyway, it's just a question of how long will it take. Hopefully soon.

[abbottcostello]

As mentioned it's political. Ferrari and Renault will get changes Merc will not get same freedoms until like the v8 era differences are so small as not to matter. In v8 era Renault got many changrs until power wise they were there or there abouts. Merc got a jump others will get big changes until nothing in it. Soon we will see 1st round of changes then a few races later more. By start of next year all will be equal, maybe sooner. Would be a shock if Ferrari and Renault had not got a pipeline of upgrades planned after the 1st test.
This is what they do, more of a capitalistic thing than political these days. Personally, I don't think Ferrari make many decisions anymore from the heart, unless that's what you call that thing in their back pocket.
Realizing completely that the only fans left watching at the end of season would be only SOME Merc fans & a very few of the others, they will regulate emergency changes, so those back on their heels (Ferrari & Renault) get an opportunity to claw back towards even in regard to performance. It is an exaggeration of course about the fans, but basically how it seems to work these days.
Also it is impossible to change rules during the season w/o approval of all teams as well, but if Bernie (and Luca) is telling them they will be losing significant money by the end of the season, the necessary rules will change fast!

[Winter]

This is what they do, more of a capitalistic thing than political these days. Personally, I don't think Ferrari make many decisions anymore from the heart, unless that's what you call that thing in their back pocket.
Realizing completely that the only fans left watching at the end of season would be only SOME Merc fans & a very few of the others, they will regulate emergency changes, so those back on their heels (Ferrari & Renault) get an opportunity to claw back towards even in regard to performance. It is an exaggeration of course about the fans, but basically how it seems to work these days.
Also it is impossible to change rules during the season w/o approval of all teams as well, but if Bernie (and Luca) is telling them they will be losing significant money by the end of the season, the necessary rules will change fast!

Should that bolded part be FIA?

[PadGeT]

All this whining about inequality in PU performance isn't helping this thread.Substantiate your claim that our PU is inferior in design and why you think so. Can we make another thread for this?

[Tony]

Hello people (first sorry for my English, you all know that french people are the worst concerning the other languages :P )
If i can give my opinion, i don't really think that Ferrari need a lot more power. You can analyze carefully two key moment of this short season : The qualification in Bahrain and the last stint of Alonso in Malaysia. All this moment suggest that we are able to go faster than what Ferrari shows in a race.
The pace during the qualification is reasonably good (Kimi in Bahrain), and the same for the pace in the last stint in Malaysia. Normally the key moment where you need the more power is during the qualification. So you can imagine that if we suffer from a lack of power our qualification should have been worst than the race... but it is the opposite. And during the malaysian grand prix, we have shown that we are able to have a good pace.

Taking together these elements tends to show that our PU has it own power but we can't use it all the time. Maybe due to some reliability problems.

After that the FOM give us some interesting elements to understand the race : The fuel consumption. We have all notice the bad consumption from Alonso this sunday during the race and more generally, Mercedes PU are the best. After that we have notice the extreme difficulties during acceleration.

So for me our main problem is the avaibility of the max power delivers by our engine and this is related to our ERS. During the race, it's very hard to run it at its maximum, so to compensate we use our engine at a high level which induce an increase in fuel consumption. At the opposite, Mercedes teams can use their ERS everytime they want, so they reduce the use of their engine and that reduce the consumption.
But we can improve our ERS, how it works.

I love the French language :) Welcome to the forum :)

I agree with your comments, I would avoid reading too many doom and gloom rumours though and the super positive ones as well, no one knows what's going on at Ferrari except Ferrari... let's wait and see but the endgame is fast approaching, if they are not competitive in the next 2-3 races, this season will be difficult to recover...

[Nero Horse]

Found this little conversation about Ferrari...


PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk

Our earlier tweet was wrong: Ferrari will introduce big updates from China to Austria. Developments on engine and chassis. #F1 #Formula1

Faiz Ronaldo ‏@fronaldo87

@pitlanetalk So..they can catch Mercedes now?

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk

@fronaldo87 They expect to catch them in Austria. We're not so sure they can as problems with PU might be mechanical.

Faiz Ronaldo ‏@fronaldo87

@pitlanetalk How big will the update in China in term of second? 0.2s?

PitLaneTalk ‏@pitlanetalk

@fronaldo87 Impossible to say. Might be half a second to a full second but others won't be standing still either.

[wacc]

Of course they will update the car, that is obvious.
Better not to take tweets about future developements and secret technical informations too seriously.

[bluesilhouettes]

From F1VietNam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l99_kynw8Ls

[bluesilhouettes]

.

[WS6TransAm01]

From F1VietNam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l99_kynw8Ls

Best part of the movie. I actually laughed audibly in the theater. People thought I was nuts.

[shamim179]

Who is the guy in the blue supposed to be in the video?

[tifosi1993]

Official In-season F1 Testing, Bahrain (Day 2, 09/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/VR1RG86l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/VR1RG86.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/eLkyn9ml.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/eLkyn9m.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/TXYGeShl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TXYGeSh.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ukMi7qNl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ukMi7qN.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/eURSD6pl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/eURSD6p.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/7kmFGx1l.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/7kmFGx1.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/kUPEf2Tl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/kUPEf2T.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ZSegq0il.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ZSegq0i.jpg)

via Sutton

[bluesilhouettes]

What you can guess from these 2 pictures ?

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Marussia-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-3-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-1c11f33e-769436.jpg

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Williams-Formel-1-GP-Australien-14-Maerz-2014-fotoshowImage-1b992a95-764332.jpg

[PadGeT]

Is that a sensor beside the rear crash structure?
http://i.imgur.com/ZSegq0il.jpg

[Hornet]

What you can guess from these 2 pictures ?

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Marussia-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-3-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-1c11f33e-769436.jpg



My guess is the rumor of Ferrari using split turbo is false. We can see the turbo unit connected to the exhaust, the airbox, and what I think is the turbo MGU above the engine. The airbox is in between the turbo and MGU, suggesting that the compressor is at the back directly connected to the turbo. All of this sits at a higher position above the engine.

The advantage Merc have is that their MGU is inside the engine V shape, therefore their turbo installation is lower than ours, so perhaps they also enjoy lower center of gravity.:Hmm

This picture below is Merc's PU. Notice the exhaust curved downwards and is connected to the turbo which is hidden at a low position. Their turbo is probably near the height of the rear suspension! While ours is above the rear suspension. This height difference against suggest to me that we do not use split turbo.

The picture below also shows the advantage Merc have with their split turbo design. We can hardly see the turbo or MGU

Just IMO anyway.

http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Mercedes-Formel-1-GP-Bahrain-Sakhir-3-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-b190d926-769432.jpg

[bluesilhouettes]

For long enough time to develop the engine, an overweight engine is not acceptable. Glory days never come back.

[gvera]

As mentioned it's political. Ferrari and Renault will get changes Merc will not get same freedoms until like the v8 era differences are so small as not to matter. In v8 era Renault got many changrs until power wise they were there or there abouts. Merc got a jump others will get big changes until nothing in it. Soon we will see 1st round of changes then a few races later more. By start of next year all will be equal, maybe sooner. Would be a shock if Ferrari and Renault had not got a pipeline of upgrades planned after the 1st test.

At the end of the year all manufacturers can homologate an absolutely new and completely different PU if they want so they won't be equal as you say.

[mark p]

At the end of the year all manufacturers can homologate an absolutely new and completely different PU if they want so they won't be equal as you say.

I did not realise this. I may have interpreted it wrong. I thought each year they can change a certain amount from original homiligation but less and less each year until no no changes.

Can you point me to where the rules state you can design a completley new engine at the end of thr year or post this rule?

[Alonso14]

http://www.rushlane.com/honeywell-1-6l-v6-turbo-engine-ensures-stable-finish-for-ferrari-at-1st-2014-gp-12113343.html

Does this mean the turbo was actually developed by Honeywell, not Ferrari in-house?:-E:Hmm

[Kiwi Nick]

http://www.rushlane.com/honeywell-1-6l-v6-turbo-engine-ensures-stable-finish-for-ferrari-at-1st-2014-gp-12113343.html

Does this mean the turbo was actually developed by Honeywell, not Ferrari in-house?:-E:Hmm

Yes.

[fronaldo]

Found this little conversation about Ferrari...
Haha..my conversation..thanks..:-)

[abbottcostello]

Haha..my conversation..thanks..:-)
:thumb

[abbottcostello]

Encouraging quote from JA in that rushlane.com article that Alonso14 posted the link for, even though it is right after Melbourne it is good to see him saying this


With all the new regulations this year, the opportunities to improve the car are legion and we can expect the race to improve the cars to be even more intense than normal.” “Our competitiveness was not acceptable in Melbourne,” concludes Allison. “But we intend to fight our way back up the grid with the improvements that we will bring to the car.”
Read more at http://www.rushlane.com/honeywell-1-6l-v6-turbo-engine-ensures-stable-finish-for-ferrari-at-1st-2014-gp-12113343.html#QYQqbTdrFXmO4gHT.99
Well I guess they want to make sure they get the credit when you copy some of their text, it automatically inserted a link to it with some kind of identifier tacked onto the end, to boot!

Also, I've got a question on the pics tifosi1993 posted above. In the #5 & #6 pics there is a paddle or almost fishtail looking piece right in the middle of all the suspension arms, covered w/flo-vis. Seems it might be a part of the brake duct assembly? What is the function of it & I thought there was no aero benefit allowed to be gained from the brake cooling ducts?

[Laferrari]

departure from Doménicali and the fact that we are 3 sec behind in race trim from mercedes is impossible to erase this year and maybe nextyear .Mercedes are in front on developpement one year , not one month not 2 but one year so .

[Naeem]

departure from Doménicali and the fact that we are 3 sec behind in race trim from mercedes is impossible to erase this year and maybe nextyear .Mercedes are in front on developpement one year , not one month not 2 but one year so .

I'm not sure, I think shedding 70kg of dead-weight may do us the world of good.

[shamim179]

departure from Doménicali and the fact that we are 3 sec behind in race trim from mercedes is impossible to erase this year and maybe nextyear .Mercedes are in front on developpement one year , not one month not 2 but one year so .

Even next year is doubtful. Mercedes have too much of an advantage and going into next year they'll be extremely strong. And Stefano's departure further complicates things as he surely had a strategy laid out and whoever comes in to replace him may or not implement these strategies and it could either be for the worse or for the better. It's very uncertain times for Ferrari. The situation will get clearer as to which direction Ferrari will be heading once the new TP has a season or two of experience with the team.

[Hornet]

Even next year is doubtful. Mercedes have too much of an advantage and going into next year they'll be extremely strong. And Stefano's departure further complicates things as he surely had a strategy laid out and whoever comes in to replace him may or not implement these strategies and it could either be for the worse or for the better. It's very uncertain times for Ferrari. The situation will get clearer as to which direction Ferrari will be heading once the new TP has a season or two of experience with the team.

Actually IMO, next year is our best chance to catch the Merc. We are allowed to make performance modifications for next year, however with each passing year, there's also a list of components in the engine that will be frozen. This is a gradual process to freeze the entire engine within the next 4-5 years

Therefore, with each passing year, our freedom to improve our engine will diminish. If we do not catch Mercedes sooner rather than later, it will be very difficult later on as more of the engine is frozen. Merc's advantage will get frozen in place if no one does anything about it within the next couple years or so.

Unless of course if they decide to rethink this engine development rules to close the gap.

[brawnydog]

Can anyone tell me who was the chief aerodynamicist for Ferrari during the Rory Byrne era? I understand that Rory was the chief designer but was he also the chief aerodynamicist? Today, it seems as though we have a chief for every single micro-department, but I also understand the cars are much more complex and must require more accurately defined departments and managers.

[PadGeT]

Can anyone tell me who was the chief aerodynamicist for Ferrari during the Rory Byrne era? I understand that Rory was the chief designer but was he also the chief aerodynamicist? Today, it seems as though we have a chief for every single micro-department, but I also understand the cars are much more complex and must require more accurately defined departments and managers.

As far as I know Brawn, Tombazis, Alex Cinneli,John Iley, James and some junior aero guys. As for your second question, a lot D/F in earlier cars were generated from floor. Here, Bryne was able to do his magic. Now that the floor sizes been drastically reduced, team has to find its alternative. That needed higher scale windtunnel models for engineers to work on.
A proper F1 team needs to asses its CFD, windtunnel and various simulation facilities and upgrade them accordingly, because they are after all the lifeblood of an F1 car.

[brawnydog]

As far as I know Brawn, Tombazis, Alex Cinneli, James and some junior aero guys. As for your second question, a lot D/F in earlier cars were generated from floor. Here, Bryne was able to do his magic. Now that the floor sizes been drastically reduced, team has to find its alternative. That needed higher scale windtunnel models for engineers to work on.
A proper F1 team needs to asses its CFD, windtunnel and various simulation facilities and upgrade them accordingly, because they are after all the lifeblood of an F1 car.
Ahh, yes. I forgot about James Allison. He was, in fact, the chief of aerodynamics, wasn't he? I know Rory was chief designer so he oversaw the overall car, but I think Rory is also an Aerodynamicist by education and profession. Thanks. By the way, wasn't it Aldo Costa that called Ferrari out on the broken wind tunnel? Funny how they let him go before they fixed it. Now he's chief designer at Mercedes - a bit of the old Ferrari technology in the Mercedes now? Brawn after all brought him over to Mercedes and both worked at Ferrari. Interesting, isn't it? I wonder if Ferrari should consider getting back the old dream team. They got Brawn out of retirement once. Why not try again? Rumour has it that he turned down an offer from Luca. Anyway, I wonder if they're sorry they let Aldo go, as look where Mercedes are now. Perhaps some bad judgements have been made and Ferrari and we the fans just haven't been patient enough. I've always said it's better to keep a team stable and united and frequent break-ups and shakeups is not the solution.

Cheers.

[zike]

Maranello, 15 April – The Formula 1 season has been rushing along at a hectic pace since the curtain raiser in Melbourne, with no less than three Grands Prix taking place in the space of three weeks. The data base of information available to the Scuderia Ferrari engineers has grown since the first race of the year and the numbers generated have been poured over, picked at and used to drive simulation programmes back in Maranello. However, despite the advances made in virtual car development, there is still no substitute for real track time and so Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen are looking forward to getting back on track at the Shanghai International Circuit for the fourth round of the world championship.

That’s particularly true given that the Bahrain Grand Prix proved to be the most difficult race so far for the Scuderia. It was no surprise given that the desert track was always going to highlight the weak points of the F14 T, without ever playing to its strengths. “Since the Bahrain race, it’s been a very busy time for us, as we examined all areas of car performance from the power unit to suspension configurations and aerodynamic improvements,” commented Ferrari’s Engineering Director Pat Fry.

All three races so far have been won by the same team and therefore Fry is realistic about the Scuderia’s short term goals. “We are naturally working as hard as we can on closing the gap to the top teams, with Mercedes having a reasonable lead over the rest of the field,” says the Englishman. “Currently, our first priority is to establish ourselves as the second best team. We are looking at all areas of the car – power unit, aero, suspension. We are trying to make as big a step as we can for each and every race.” As for the challenge presented by 56 laps of the 5.451 kilometres of the Shanghai International Circuit, Fry sees it as typical of the modern breed of race circuit. “China’s an interesting track with a good mix of corner types. It begins with the long slow speed corners early in the lap, then a mix of high speed ones in the middle sector, plus a very long straight, about 1.3 kilometres worth, where you need to tune the cars for maximum top speed. However, even with this straight, normally in Shanghai, you find yourself running more towards the top end of the downforce range and with that long straight providing the one real overtaking opportunity, I’m sure everyone will be looking to trade off speed to make sure you can both attack and defend.” There are other challenges in China starting with the long straight, which will ask questions of the still relatively new power units. The brakes will have a much easier time than in previous races, however tyres, particularly the rears, need careful looking after because of the loads imposed by all the very long corners.

It’s proving hard to make predictions this year – at least when it comes to who can challenge the current leaders – so the Scuderia Ferrari crew will approach the Shanghai weekend in its usual methodical way in the hope that lessons learned so far will see the F14 T run more competitively. In his usual blunt way, Kimi Raikkonen sums up perfectly what lies ahead for the Prancing Horse. “We know what we have to do. The people are pushing 100 per cent, but it takes time.”


So after reading this, I came to a conclusion..........NO updates

[bonzo]

So after reading this, I came to a conclusion..........NO updates

Logical conclusion, mate.

[Laferrari]

we will see if they will have update other than what we saw(brake) during barhain test.I think nothing will change, you cannot recover 2.0 - 2.8 sec in 2 weeks.Everybody will have small updates so the situation will remaining the same.shame but it s realistic.
Fry is playing down update because he knows he cannot promise the updtade will work and give everyone too much hope...he fear he will loose his place too.I heard some rumor that Lucas is also on the firing list after doménicali...maybe he will be replace by someone from agnelli family...Now there plenty of talk from ferrari but nothing good , a shame

[Senna4Ever]

.I heard some rumor that Lucas is also on the firing list after doménicali...maybe he will be replace by someone from agnelli family...

right one month after his contract was renewed?
ei ei ei ...

[Senna4Ever]

so after all the changes and rumours: hopefully our drivers and especially our pit crews show up ...

[Kyss4k]

Just passing by with an off topic info: it seems that McLaren's title sponsor will be Gillette.

[Alesi1]

Pat fry has been a huge disappointment. He has 'restructured' how things are supposedly done. Perhaps in 20 years we will see some results from his changes :)

[PadGeT]

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Parc-Ferm-GP-Malaysia-2014-fotoshowBigImage-33df05d8-768880.jpg

Comparison - relative wheelbase of cars in this pic.

[zike]

FA @joseluisf1 2m
In China Ferrari brings new pieces (few) to improve cornering and top speed, the motor unit depends on the software

Pat Fry: "Currently, our first priority is to establish ourselves as the second best team. We are looking at all areas of the car - power unit, aero, suspension. We are trying to make as big a step as we can for each and every race.”

[Laferrari]

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Parc-Ferm-GP-Malaysia-2014-fotoshowBigImage-33df05d8-768880.jpg

Comparison - relative wheelbase of cars in this pic.


Our car look so fat compare to the other team...earlier rumour said that we have the best cooling system , it s sound for me a joke when i see these pics.Force india,torro rosso and even mclaren look slimmer than us.

[Kyss4k]

Our car look so fat compare to the other team...earlier rumour said that we have the best cooling system , it s sound for me a joke when i see these pics.Force india,torro rosso and even mclaren look slimmer than us.

It's because we have those short cooling outlets, there is huge undercat below them. I never understood why are we doing it this way though. It surely has to disturb the air going to the back end of the car.

[Alonso14]

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Parc-Ferm-GP-Malaysia-2014-fotoshowBigImage-33df05d8-768880.jpg

Comparison - relative wheelbase of cars in this pic.

Maaan, the Toro Rosso, Macca and FI are all so much thinner at the back. That's a huge disadvantage for us. :(

[windwaves]

Again, as the poster above notes, the F14T is a failure at ALL levels. And really this has been said by everyone in and out of Ferrari for quite some time.
SD development once again was clearly worth zero. We have seen no updates of substance and nothing coming. Why ? the car is just not even close to where it should be so even if there was a dvpt plan it was rendered totally useless once the reality on track was revealed.

Peace.

I am excited about Ferrari finally changing things at the top. It is only the beginning. Lets support the new guy, MM. He has got some very very difficult times ahead to say the least.

With SD gone, Pat Fry basically saying current situation is hopeless, I suspect he knows even fighting for 2nd is going to be very difficult, at best.

[SilverSpeed]

Better cooling = fatter car it seems.

[impactX]

Again, as the poster above notes, the F14T is a failure at ALL levels. And really this has been said by everyone in and out of Ferrari for quite some time.
SD development once again was clearly worth zero. We have seen no updates of substance and nothing coming. Why ? the car is just not even close to where it should be so even if there was a dvpt plan it was rendered totally useless once the reality on track was revealed.

Peace.

I am excited about Ferrari finally changing things at the top. It is only the beginning. Lets support the new guy, MM. He has got some very very difficult times ahead to say the least.

With SD gone, Pat Fry basically saying current situation is hopeless, I suspect he knows even fighting for 2nd is going to be very difficult, at best.

We won the last race in 2013 when Pat Fry was hospitalised and was not able to attend to the GP that weekend. We just discovered the key to winning.

[paneristi]

weight distribution might rather swing back to rear causing massive understeer (?)

[Alesi1]

FA @joseluisf1 2m
In China Ferrari brings new pieces (few) to improve cornering and top speed, the motor unit depends on the software

Pat Fry: "Currently, our first priority is to establish ourselves as the second best team. We are looking at all areas of the car - power unit, aero, suspension. We are trying to make as big a step as we can for each and every race.”

Typical, if you don't aim higher you've already lost. Never give up always aim to win no matter how hopeless it looks and how long it takes. Got no confidence in the guy.

[Kiwi Nick]

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Parc-Ferm-GP-Malaysia-2014-fotoshowBigImage-33df05d8-768880.jpg

Comparison - relative wheelbase of cars in this pic.

I can't really tell if there is distortion due to parallax, but Kimi's car has a significantly longer wheelbase than the Macca and is even longer than the FI and the STR. The car also seems to be longer overall. The weight distribution, front axle/rear axle is controlled by the regs, they should all be the same. But the longer WB should affect stability and turn-in. The additional length would make the car less nimble.

The size of the side pods is a little disturbing. We have been told that the F14T had superior cooling, but the size of the side pods argues against that notion.

[PadGeT]

I can't really tell if there is distortion due to parallax, but Kimi's car has a significantly longer wheelbase than the Macca and is even longer than the FI and the STR. The car also seems to be longer overall. The weight distribution, front axle/rear axle is controlled by the regs, they should all be the same. But the longer WB should affect stability and turn-in. The additional length would make the car less nimble.

The size of the side pods is a little disturbing. We have been told that the F14T had superior cooling, but the size of the side pods argues against that notion.

Indeed, we do have longer wheelbase, that helps give the car more downforce imo, but downside is the car becomes understeery as we found out with Lotus last year.

[Kiwi Nick]

Indeed, we have longer wheelbase, that helps give the car more downforce imo, but downside is the car becomes understeery as we found out with Lotus last year.

Exactly the longer WB affects the ability of the car to turn-in quickly. On the other hand it should improve stability. I'm not so sure about the affect of WB on downforce.

[PadGeT]

Much of airflow energy gets stronger, such as vortex from the FW cascades with distance. Longer wheelbase allows the vortex to meet the bargeboard at larger distance, thereby strengthening the flow along the way. Also the CG of the car is pushed more to the front, closer to the centre of pressure of the car. Thats my view, I guess. Also some team increases their floor length/T-tray, splitter position, although whether its fair I don't know.

[Nero Horse]

Pat Fry: "Currently, our first priority is to establish ourselves as the second best team.

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud. :-??

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

[pericoloso]

Even though this statement shows where Ferrari really are and it represents a step forward, this is not a statement I would want to make public. Striving to be the tallest midget isn't exactly reaching for the stars, is it?

[Winter]

That long wheelbase makes car more understeery and I'd quess it also makes it more difficult to handle in oversteer situations.

[kiwifella]

Reckon this thread will go quiet for a while now........

[Silent Bob]

Again, as the poster above notes, the F14T is a failure at ALL levels. And really this has been said by everyone in and out of Ferrari for quite some time.
SD development once again was clearly worth zero. We have seen no updates of substance and nothing coming. Why ? the car is just not even close to where it should be so even if there was a dvpt plan it was rendered totally useless once the reality on track was revealed.

Peace.

I am excited about Ferrari finally changing things at the top. It is only the beginning. Lets support the new guy, MM. He has got some very very difficult times ahead to say the least.

With SD gone, Pat Fry basically saying current situation is hopeless, I suspect he knows even fighting for 2nd is going to be very difficult, at best.

You're getting about as repetitive as Domenicalli was with his "stay calm" mantas. We get it, the car isn't very quick.

[Ferris]

Stefano made his biggest error during 2008 and 2010. This was the time he should have invested in the f1 team around better CFD, simulator and wind tunnel upgrades.
He didn't and these things eventually bite you hard as they did in 2010 and 2012 when a little bit of extra speed which would have been aided by a functioning wind tunnel would have provided just the right amount of addition speed to win those titles.

2014 issues are down to Ferrari having no experience in the turbo arena unlike Merc. They had the experience and started investing in the project heavily more than 2 years ago with more resources than Ferrari or Renault.

[windwaves]

You're getting about as repetitive as Domenicalli was with his "stay calm" mantas. We get it, the car isn't very quick.

sorry about that.

I was trying to emphasize the fact that it is not, I repeat, it is not just the PU. The PU is a giant failure of course (I suspect Marmorino is packing up already) but it seems all the rest is just as bad.

Oh well, MM has his hands full !!!!!

[stefa]

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud. :-??

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

Exactly :clap

[The Architect]

I think it's obvious by reading his full comments (posted in another thread), that he was referring to the immediate priority which I think is very true and reasonable. Overreacting in this way doesn't do us any favours.

Unfortunately, the Ferrari looks quite a bit fatter than the Mercedes engine cars, so this is going to be very difficult.

[Muhammad Ansib]

Can't believe that he actually said that out loud. :-??

As a member of Scuderia Ferrari you should NEVER say stupid things like that, no matter how bad the situation is! Words like that are music to the ears of Merc people. Luca should have a serious talk with Fry.

I think firstly Fry is trying to downplay expectations as usual and its obvious that Ferrari cant really match Mercedes in the short term But long term objective is to be a title contender(atleast I hope so)

[AfterLife]

Maaan, the Toro Rosso, Macca and FI are all so much thinner at the back. That's a huge disadvantage for us. :(

Maybe it is because of different cooling solution.

[PadGeT]

Shanghai International Circuit, China (16/04/2014)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yQFP-WtX1Pg/U05KShpnV9I/AAAAAAAA7vY/Wz2Yupg7cug/w900-h600-no/Ferrari-Formel-1-GP-China-Shanghai-16-April-2014-fotoshowBigImage-4d034e40-771823.jpg

[Hornet]

Edit: I assume that picture is from China

Looks like the blown wheel nut tested in Bahrain. Hopefully this means it's working :thumb

[Majki2111]

:furious:clapFinally some pictures here. Conversation here since Bahrain has been awful.

[Alesi1]

:furious:clapFinally some pictures here. Conversation here since Bahrain has been awful.

We may as well start the race now, perhaps we may still be ahead come the last lap on Sunday. :)
(sorry mood ain't gonna change mate)

[Muhammad Ansib]

I want to see Newer Front wings Mercedes or McLaren style and more vortex generators on it. cuz we have stuck to the Wing which was brought forward from last year and tested in bahrain test. Mercedes, Redbull and Mclaren have brought up at least 2 new wings since then and we have nothing... where the upgrades???

[PadGeT]

I want to see Newer Front wings Mercedes or McLaren style and more vortex generators on it. cuz we have stuck to the Wing which was brought forward from last year and tested in bahrain test. Mercedes, Redbull and Mclaren have brought up at least 2 new wings since then and we have nothing... where the upgrades???

Don't worry, FW evolution is one of key developmental areas for every team.

[Nova]

Looking at this new car, Im wondering just how new it is and just what it is that can be developed. It retains the same basic suspension as last year, which in my opinion
was a wrong decision. If they could have made it work better then, they wouldve. It looks, from the in car vids, that the car isnt stable, and a real handful to drive. If 2 of the best racers in F1 cannot drive it, something is terribly wrong. Whoever made the decision to keep a suspension setup that has proved to be unsuccessful made the incorrect decision. If it was never successful on any car, why burden yourself with the extra task of trying to do so, on top of trying to make a new engine formula work at maximum power. When I look at RB, their car still looks like it is glued to the track and looks very similar to their successful chassis of the last few years. I was under the impression that the F14 was to be a totally new car.

I also think the tire compounds come into play here. If our chassis did not work with the compounds brought in last year, 1st priority should have been to build a chassis that does work with this compound. Get that sorted, then u can work on the power. As it stands now, the car doesnt handle well AND is down on power. Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

[PadGeT]

Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?

[Muhammad Ansib]

Looking at this new car, Im wondering just how new it is and just what it is that can be developed. It retains the same basic suspension as last year, which in my opinion
was a wrong decision. If they could have made it work better then, they wouldve. It looks, from the in car vids, that the car isnt stable, and a real handful to drive. If 2 of the best racers in F1 cannot drive it, something is terribly wrong. Whoever made the decision to keep a suspension setup that has proved to be unsuccessful made the incorrect decision. If it was never successful on any car, why burden yourself with the extra task of trying to do so, on top of trying to make a new engine formula work at maximum power. When I look at RB, their car still looks like it is glued to the track and looks very similar to their successful chassis of the last few years. I was under the impression that the F14 was to be a totally new car.

I also think the tire compounds come into play here. If our chassis did not work with the compounds brought in last year, 1st priority should have been to build a chassis that does work with this compound. Get that sorted, then u can work on the power. As it stands now, the car doesnt handle well AND is down on power. Multiple problems which should have been addressed in the planning of the new car. What doesnt work? Toss it, what does? Keep it, develop it. Basic common sense. There really is only 1 solution....Build a new car.

You Sir are absolutely correct with the argument of the Suspension layout cuz I mean even the McLaren have ditched the Pull-Rod layout(at the front) and they are known to be very good In-season Developers and making dogs into competitive cars and most Important of all the best Car (Chasis wise) is RBR and they only have pull rod layout at the rear cuz it helps with the aero(same has been since 2009 and they were the ones who introduced it!) and the fatest car the W05 also same so why have we stuck to it, Could it be that we know something others dont or we are following out own development path that others arent and are probably ahead of us?

[Kiwi Nick]

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?

New design team.

[PadGeT]

New design team.

Who would you sign, given the power, to remove our weakness? Unfortunately, this sport isnt a quick fix one.

[PadGeT]

You Sir are absolutely correct with the argument of the Suspension layout cuz I mean even the McLaren have ditched the Pull-Rod layout(at the front) and they are known to be very good In-season Developers and making dogs into competitive cars and most Important of all the best Car (Chasis wise) is RBR and they only have pull rod layout at the rear cuz it helps with the aero(same has been since 2009 and they were the ones who introduced it!) and the fatest car the W05 also same so why have we stuck to it, Could it be that we know something others dont or we are following out own development path that others arent and are probably ahead of us?

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.

[abbottcostello]

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.
Wasn't that all to do with removing torsion springs on rear suspensions & only running the bump rubber, when everyone was contemplating pull rod, like 2010-2011? Seem to remember reading about it on Scarbs, but not fully understanding, except that front sups. = stiff, rear sups. = soft leads to better aero or at least more uniform/stable?

[Nova]

Difference btw pull rod & push rod front suspension setup is minimal. Maybe in earlier higher nose iterations, pull rod seemed most beneficial. Its all about high aero efficient and tight the packaging is where marginal gains can be made. The heave movement, as we call, of the suspension settings can be better modified in pull rod by mass dampers/springs/bump rubbers, imo.

If it is minimal, why cant they make it work? Most of the cars look a lot more stable, easier to drive, and mabey easier to adapt setup changes to different tracks.
If something doesnt work, it has to be changed. If Ferrari knows something about this setup the other teams dont, Id suggest they use it.
Id hate to think that something is fundamentally incorrect with this chassis.

It pains me to see us running so low on the grid.

[Hornet]

If it is minimal, why cant they make it work? Most of the cars look a lot more stable, easier to drive, and mabey easier to adapt setup changes to different tracks.
If something doesnt work, it has to be changed. If Ferrari knows something about this setup the other teams dont, Id suggest they use it.
Id hate to think that something is fundamentally incorrect with this chassis.

It pains me to see us running so low on the grid.

I don't think our problem is front push rod. In terms of mechanical performance, push rod and pull rod is exactly the same. Only difference is in terms of aero, where pull rod is almost horizontal hence it's almost in line with the wake from the front wing.

Our drivability issues comes from how power is being delivered. This year, Mercedes PU is the best at power delivery as well, not just maximum output. Last year, Red Bull had the advantage due to their throttle mapping which controls how much torque is produced during acceleration.

[brembo man]

Double diffusors, throttle mapping, what are we waiting for? Get Briatori to Ferrari immed.

[mark p]

1st pics from China show Merc have passed a crash test for a new higher nose maximising their clever horse shoe shaped crash structure to feed even more undisturbed air under the nose. Although impossible for us to know the advantage logically it seems an incredibly good idea. Any pictures yet of what Ferrari have got?

This is the advantage of having the pu sorted in that you can fully concentrate on other areas to further an advantage.

China may well suit Ferrari more so may be better relative to rest compared to Bharain but the acid test will be what happen on that long straight. Surely there will be some underskin improvements as they must have known the performance issue with the pu since the 1st test over 2 months ago.

[Laferrari]

If they don't know how to solve the problems in the old car, how can you expect a new car to be any different?


We expect them to change the concept , the concept of this F14T is the same than 3 years ago.acer duc,front suspension ,and basic fron wing.There is no miracle in F1 , when your have a bad concept you can t involve with that to a rocketship.They build again a dog , with to much hole behind (cooling problem, installation of the engine?,the design is wrong and everyone in paddock say the same thing about the philosophy).

[tifosi1993]

Shanghai International Circuit, China (17/04/2014)

http://i.imgur.com/evInKSpl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/evInKSp.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/AVgqwQJl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/AVgqwQJ.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/2pDFJhfl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/2pDFJhf.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ae9EBsJl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ae9EBsJ.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/KVdEcpjl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/KVdEcpj.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/RCMKLAtl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/RCMKLAt.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/S9F1jVfl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/S9F1jVf.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/rUcLhKvl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/rUcLhKv.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/JMLyDoMl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/JMLyDoM.jpg)

via Sutton