Bahrain testing 27 Feb-2 Mar

[Kyss4k]

All the you say looks logical and correct. I am still worried about the fact that experts do no include us in the top 2 teams so far, furthermore other teams drivers
when asked don't see us an immediate threat, Jenson Button in the Mclaren said he sees the main contenders for his team to be mercedes and williams, and doesn't count out RBR to return to it's best later in the season... nothing about Ferrari.

The "Alonso not a threat" Button?

[OSS EL BOSS]

Let's have a logical look at all of this. First off the general rule of thumb is 1/2 pound of fuel per horsepower per hour from gasoline/bezina. Given you have 100kg's of fuel, 2.2 pounds per kg, well you end up with 34 gallons of fuel to run the race. So if you are running WOT for 50% of that race you would being using about 300bhp on average for the distance of the race. How much fuel does that take?

300/2 = 150 pounds of fuel per hour at 300bhp. 150 pounds is 68.18kgs of fuel per hour.. You will never make it to the end of the race. Given this, there is no way with the fuel restriction in place that Merc and anyone else can be up 75bhp over any other team. More than that, anyone using more than 220bhp average of the
length of the race won't finish the race and will be out fuel.. You only get 100kg for the entire race.. You can burn it at a rate of 100kg per hour, but doing so
means you run our fuel half way through the race.. All of this talk about Merc having the best engine is complete BS.

The actual power units are more complex than that, there are many areas where you can find an advantage.

[IulianFerrari]

The "Alonso not a threat" Button?

Not only his opinion...

[Nero Horse]

So now we are going to have two long weeks of speculations, doom and gloom and disaster, and....
Why just don't wait actually to see it in first race? Than we can panic (if there is a need for it)!

Couldn't agree with you more on this one. And we don't really need to panic at all, never, cause panicking is for sissies. All this doom and gloom never helps anyone, it just makes things worse.

[IulianFerrari]

Looking forward to see Alonso's last day. Hopefully he will get enough mileage on the car and everything goes smoothly

[GrndLkNatv]

The actual power units are more complex than that, there are many areas where you can find an advantage.

Really? How? Gas is what is used to move the car to generate power and heat for the recovery systems which also drive the car. You get 33 seconds of boost from electric per lap which is 1/3 a lap at best and so where else are you getting efficiency?? With the best efficiency they have with gas burn now the engines are not producing any more bhp from 13000 rpm to 15000rpm, the power curve is flat, so where are all the other areas? What am I not understanding? At Monza which is 80% WOT if you use the ERS 33 seconds a lap you will reduce your WOT to 50% of the time! still exceeding 220bhp per hour...

[djmorin27]

why am i reading that there was a water leak at the end of the day.no ware on any of these pages does does it say or the team said that they cut the race sim short by 5 laps on kimi do to water. please explain and regarding lap times and being down on hp is not the concern its the fuel usage that might be the smoking gun. they are all with in a few hp but like you know you have to cut power to save fuel.i think the biggest guessing game between teams will be this push like hell in the beginning and slowly ease off till the end or a easy fist 3rd of the race push like hell middle 3rd and easy last third or a pretty easy 2rd of the race and go all out till the end.i think quali wont be that big of a deal if your in the top six becuz its a fact you will not beable to go flat out to the end.it will be alot like nascar watch the beginning to make sure your driver got away good and come back later for the last 10 laps of action. dont kid your self there will be more passing becuz of saving fuel then the rear wing oppening just my thoughts and good night to everyone

[OSS EL BOSS]

Really? How? Gas is what is used to move the car to generate power and heat for the recovery systems which also drive the car. You get 33 seconds of boost from electric per lap which is 1/3 a lap at best and so where else are you getting efficiency?? With the best efficiency they have with gas burn now the engines are not producing any more bhp from 13000 rpm to 15000rpm, the power curve is flat, so where are all the other areas? What am I not understanding? At Monza which is 80% WOT if you use the ERS 33 seconds a lap you will reduce your WOT to 50% of the time! still exceeding 220bhp per hour...

An area where you can find power is for example the cooling system. More cooling for the engine gives you more power, and its back to the engineers to make the gains as big as possible and the disadvantages such as drag, less downforce and maybe more weight, as small as possible.

[Winter]

Let's have a logical look at all of this. First off the general rule of thumb is 1/2 pound of fuel per horsepower per hour from gasoline/bezina. Given you have 100kg's of fuel, 2.2 pounds per kg, well you end up with 34 gallons of fuel to run the race. So if you are running WOT for 50% of that race you would being using about 300bhp on average for the distance of the race. How much fuel does that take?

300/2 = 150 pounds of fuel per hour at 300bhp. 150 pounds is 68.18kgs of fuel per hour.. You will never make it to the end of the race. Given this, there is no way with the fuel restriction in place that Merc and anyone else can be up 75bhp over any other team. More than that, anyone using more than 220bhp average of the
length of the race won't finish the race and will be out fuel.. You only get 100kg for the entire race.. You can burn it at a rate of 100kg per hour, but doing so
means you run our fuel half way through the race.. All of this talk about Merc having the best engine is complete BS.

Please tell that general rule to Mercedes

You only need to have 0,01% better efficiency to have huge advantage, when 1s/lap is really big difference..

[FerrariF60]

one thing's for sure, with only 100Kg of fuel for the whole race, NO ONE and i mean NO ONE will be going flat out for the whole race....not anymore; everyone at some point in time will be saving fuel....

F1 recing as we all know it, WILL NEVER BE THE SAME....WE, or at least MYSELF have cherished every moment of watching F1 either on TV or live in Montreal back in the V10 era as well as V8 era....THOSE were teh days when drivers were going FLAT OUT for the whole race as well as when we had refueling...

we'll never get those moments back....SAD BUT TRUE!!!!

[GrndLkNatv]

Please tell that general rule to Mercedes

You only need to have 0,01% better efficiency to have huge advantage, when 1s/lap is really big difference..

But it's no where near 75bhp. As for the cooling giving you more power, yes that's true but the amount of power in gasoline is the same, the efficiency you burn it is your advantage and all the teams are flat lining between 13 and 15 k rpm. Given Ferrari's cooling system is by far the best, no way Merc has more power..

[GrndLkNatv]

Those days will return when attendance drops..

one thing's for sure, with only 100Kg of fuel for the whole race, NO ONE and i mean NO ONE will be going flat out for the whole race....not anymore; everyone at some point in time will be saving fuel....

F1 recing as we all know it, WILL NEVER BE THE SAME....WE, or at least MYSELF have cherished every moment of watching F1 either on TV or live in Montreal back in the V10 era as well as V8 era....THOSE were teh days when drivers were going FLAT OUT for the whole race as well as when we had refueling...

we'll never get those moments back....SAD BUT TRUE!!!!

[eugene22n]

While all signs point to Mercedes being a far stronger and equally reliable engine we do not know the fuel efficiency. If Ferrari have the advantage there then it might equalize or swing the balance in our favor.

The *MOST* important aspect however is back at home. All our recent failures were because we had a big disadvantage in the wind tunnel. If we have the top wind tunnel then the championship will be ours.

[Kiwi Nick]

But it's no where near 75bhp. As for the cooling giving you more power, yes that's true but the amount of power in gasoline is the same, the efficiency you burn it is your advantage and all the teams are flat lining between 13 and 15 k rpm. Given Ferrari's cooling system is by far the best, no way Merc has more power..

You are correct as far as you go. It may very well be that most, if not all, of Merc's currently perceived advantage is in the ERS. After all the ERS is very complicated, particularly in how the system's software operated. This is demonstrated by the fact that Red Bull is assisting Renault in rewriting some of the software in an attempt to get the power unit operating correctly. If Merc are doing a better job of harvesting, storing and deploying the energy recovered from breaking and heat, that could easily account for the good performance shown by all of the Mercedes powered cars. Even if the 3 different internal combustion systems have nearly the same output.

[SS454]

Let's have a logical look at all of this. First off the general rule of thumb is 1/2 pound of fuel per horsepower per hour from gasoline/bezina. Given you have 100kg's of fuel, 2.2 pounds per kg, well you end up with 34 gallons of fuel to run the race. So if you are running WOT for 50% of that race you would being using about 300bhp on average for the distance of the race. How much fuel does that take?

300/2 = 150 pounds of fuel per hour at 300bhp. 150 pounds is 68.18kgs of fuel per hour.. You will never make it to the end of the race. Given this, there is no way with the fuel restriction in place that Merc and anyone else can be up 75bhp over any other team. More than that, anyone using more than 220bhp average of the
length of the race won't finish the race and will be out fuel.. You only get 100kg for the entire race.. You can burn it at a rate of 100kg per hour, but doing so
means you run our fuel half way through the race.. All of this talk about Merc having the best engine is complete BS.

You can't accurately estimate power based on fuel consumption. There are FAR too many variables, one of many is the aerodynamic drag. The weight of gasoline is somewhat variable based on its temperature, but common figures are 6.0 - 6.5 lbs per gallon. That would mean a full tank is between 33.85 and 36.67 gallons. Let's just say 35 gallons. Fuel for 310 km (192.2 miles), means you need to average 5.49 miles per gallon over the course of the race. Everyone always estimates a race car's mpg is around 4 mpg, but I would guess an F1 car at full tilt would be slightly more efficient this year. So lets say 4.0-4.5 mpg on the richest fuel setting. Even if they are cruising around at 6 mpg for most of the race, that doesn't mean they are only running at 425 horsepower, or in your example, 300 hp.

[Winter]

But it's no where near 75bhp. As for the cooling giving you more power, yes that's true but the amount of power in gasoline is the same, the efficiency you burn it is your advantage and all the teams are flat lining between 13 and 15 k rpm. Given Ferrari's cooling system is by far the best, no way Merc has more power..

No, it's no where near 75bhp. And Mercedes would've had to discover something so special to get so much more power from same sized combustion engine, that I dont believe
thats even possible.

[Hornet]

Really? How? Gas is what is used to move the car to generate power and heat for the recovery systems which also drive the car. You get 33 seconds of boost from electric per lap which is 1/3 a lap at best and so where else are you getting efficiency?? With the best efficiency they have with gas burn now the engines are not producing any more bhp from 13000 rpm to 15000rpm, the power curve is flat, so where are all the other areas? What am I not understanding? At Monza which is 80% WOT if you use the ERS 33 seconds a lap you will reduce your WOT to 50% of the time! still exceeding 220bhp per hour...

The efficiency in combustion engine is very low. You can't just say there's so and so amount of power in so and so amount of gasoline and that's all there is. I can remember the exact figure, but Sky said last year that the efficiency we were getting with naturally aspirated engines are 20%-30% ish IIRC. This year, we are bumping up the efficiency with forced induction. There are still a lot of energy wasted in combustion engine, which means there's plenty of room for designers to extract more power out of the same amount of fuel burned. The huge jump in efficiency with forced induction alone tells you how inefficient combustion engines are.

You cannot simply deduce those figures out without hard data to back them up. These hard data can only be obtained from the dyno or whatever equipment and means there are to figure out what each engine is producing. Not by simple deduction and assumptions. Too many factors involve in determining how efficient the fuels are being burned, and it's still no where close to perfect. Most of the energy are turned into heat from friction, carried away by exhaust gas heat, etc etc. You can't possible account for all that.

Unless of course you already have hard data to back up your claims, then I stand corrected.

[SS454]

The efficiency in combustion engine is very low. You can't just say there's so and so amount of power in so and so amount of gasoline and that's all there is. I can remember the exact figure, but Sky said last year that the efficiency we were getting with naturally aspirated engines are 20%-30% ish IIRC. This year, we are bumping up the efficiency with forced induction. There are still a lot of energy wasted in combustion engine, which means there's plenty of room for designers to extract more power out of the same amount of fuel burned. The huge jump in efficiency with forced induction alone tells you how inefficient combustion engines are.

You cannot simply deduce those figures out without hard data to back them up. These hard data can only be obtained from the dyno or whatever equipment and means there are to figure out what each engine is producing. Not by simple deduction and assumptions. Too many factors involve in determining how efficient the fuels are being burned, and it's still no where close to perfect. Most of the energy are turned into heat from friction, carried away by exhaust gas heat, etc etc. You can't possible account for all that.

Unless of course you already have hard data to back up your claims, then I stand corrected.

I have no idea where this figure of 20-30% comes from. Obviously naturally aspirated engines have limitations, but given the rules enforced I would say F1 engines are extremely efficient. I would bet the volumetric efficiencies are in the 120-130% for the N/A engines.

[Hornet]

I have no idea where this figure of 20-30% comes from. Obviously naturally aspirated engines have limitations, but given the rules enforced I would say F1 engines are extremely efficient. I would bet the volumetric efficiencies are in the 120-130% for the N/A engines.

The efficiency there is how much useful energy we actually obtain. From what I understand, roughly 3/4 of the engine power are wasted in so many different ways (generally, I don't know what that figure is for F1). Maybe Sky was quoting the general figure, which is said to be 25%-30% efficiency currently.

Regardless, there's clearly plenty of room for improvement, so I don't think anyone can claim that it's impossible for our competitors to be more powerful than us despite the fuel restriction. Maybe not 75bhp, but we should not be surprise if our competitors are more powerful than us (or of course, it could be Ferrari is more powerful).

[fronaldo]

Come on Alonso

[f1tomi8]

06:44 Alonso's first flying lap puts him second 1'37"404 on hard

[anialonso]

This time with 1.40,924 minutes. Alonso goes on hunting time. His Ferrari was with 290.2 km / h the fastest so far on the finish line.

[f1tomi8]

[Sempre_Ferrari]

sensor?

[anialonso]

c13456cc-31c5-481d-b903-eef68209bea3_800.jpg

Plenty of Aero work for Ferrari..!!

[f1tomi8]

sensor?

Camera measure

[f1tomi8]

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperF1 17 mp
Bahrain International Circuit is to name the first corner after Michael Schumacher, with the blessing of his family

[f1tomi8]

[f1tomi8]

At the Ferrari all the side boxes were sprayed with yellow Floviz color. Since it is well to stop the flow of the vertebrae, which are produced to the front wing. via Amus

[Black Adder]

Benson (BBC): "Ferrari have had a low-key pre-season testing programme, not giving many clues about their true pace, but signs that all may not be well are beginning to emerge. Kimi Raikkonen went out for a run on super-soft tyres at the end of Saturday, but was two seconds off the pace of Williams's Felipe Massa and Mercedes' Nico Rosberg.

"Williams said Massa had simulated a full qualifying session. So assuming Massa was running minimum fuel, Raikkonen would have had to be running 70kg - 70% of a full tank - for the Ferrari to be comparably quick on fuel-adjusted pace. And there would be no obvious reason to run that much fuel on super-softs.

"Meanwhile, Raikkonen's truncated race-simulation run earlier in the afternoon was slower on average (1:43.275) than similar-length ones by Force India's Nico Hulkenberg (1:42.92) and McLaren's Kevin Magnussen (1:43.116)."