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Thread: 2014 Regulations.(engine/aero etc etc)

  1. #481
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    I could just about suffer the whole save tyres part of modern F1, it's always been a part of the sport. But this whole saving fuel (I know they do it to some extent currently) just seems like another nail in the coffin of F1 being about racing.
    Forza Ferrari

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I could just about suffer the whole save tyres part of modern F1, it's always been a part of the sport. But this whole saving fuel (I know they do it to some extent currently) just seems like another nail in the coffin of F1 being about racing.
    Havnt F1 teams conceded enough already by agreeing to use v6 engines? Surely now they should just be allowed to make the most of them and not run them 'turned down' to save fuel. Next year could be a shocker!

  3. #483
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    I ask it again why 80's turbo engine's were more powerful than the ones that we will have on 2014?
    80's turbo engine had maximum 12000 rpm and 1500cc and 1000+ hp.
    Today's turbo engine will have 15000 rpm and 1600cc and aroung 600hp + ERS(160 hp).(600+160=760 hp only)
    I mean, we have had like 30 years to evolve and this is the result?
    Or am I missing something?

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by andone89 View Post
    I ask it again why 80's turbo engine's were more powerful than the ones that we will have on 2014?
    80's turbo engine had maximum 12000 rpm and 1500cc and 1000+ hp.
    Today's turbo engine will have 15000 rpm and 1600cc and aroung 600hp + ERS(160 hp).(600+160=760 hp only)
    I mean, we have had like 30 years to evolve and this is the result?
    Or am I missing something?
    Because there was no limit on the amount of fuel used and the boost was higher. Does this help?

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Nick View Post
    Because there was no limit on the amount of fuel used and the boost was higher. Does this help?
    No, fuel limit started I think in 86 thru the last year of 88 w/89 being the return of the mighty V12. 86, we werent good, 87 we were sort of ok, then 88...Honda in the Macs had it down. They could run faster and longer than anyone else. plus their drivers were killer, they won all of the races save 1, which Ferrari won. So no, I dont think Ferrari is going to sweep anything next year as long as we have this fuel thing. I simply dont understand why Ferrari keeps agreeing to some of these absurd rules changes. Great..new engines, new designs but ya just arent allowed to really race them...really?

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I could just about suffer the whole save tyres part of modern F1, it's always been a part of the sport. But this whole saving fuel (I know they do it to some extent currently) just seems like another nail in the coffin of F1 being about racing.
    Next step is introducing traffic lights

  7. #487
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    So, there is a possibility that next year we could watch a race where all cars are saving fuel

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    So, there is a possibility that next year we could watch a race where all cars are saving fuel
    It's actually a fact The engines are capable of using A LOT more fuel during the race than the regs allow (100 kg from start to finish), so it's really unlikely that we'll see anyone not saving fuel at any point in the race. The only time we'll be able to see the cars going all out, will be qualifying.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzi View Post
    It's actually a fact The engines are capable of using A LOT more fuel during the race than the regs allow (100 kg from start to finish), so it's really unlikely that we'll see anyone not saving fuel at any point in the race. The only time we'll be able to see the cars going all out, will be qualifying.
    this is not racing, formula 1 should be a pinnacle of motorsport

  10. #490
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    The fuel limit for the race is ridiculous, drivers will have to perfect new "throttle techniques" for fuel saving. It would make a lot of sense to increase the fuel limit, if only for the first year.


    Quote Originally Posted by James Allen
    [Pedro de la Rosa] has already done a significant amount of work on the 2014 car and told this website that drivers will have to perfect a new artform in throttle techniques next season to manage the fuel consumption. Instead of 150kg of fuel for a 300km race, as it is currently, next season, drivers will have only 100kg.

    Sebastian Vettel spoke about this yesterday on an Infiniti sponsor day in Yokohama, “Qualifying will not change but what worries me more is the race, after having done quite a few simulations,” he said. “Because with a 100kg fuel limit you have to be very careful with the throttle.

    “I hope that we will be able to push to the limit for the whole race, because this is our job..”

  11. #491
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    2014 Engine

    So we can expect Horner & Marko chasing FIA if Renault engine turns out to be thirsty.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    So we can expect Horner & Marko chasing FIA if Renault engine turns out to be thirsty.
    and SD `stay calm` guru

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzi View Post
    It's actually a fact The engines are capable of using A LOT more fuel during the race than the regs allow (100 kg from start to finish), so it's really unlikely that we'll see anyone not saving fuel at any point in the race. The only time we'll be able to see the cars going all out, will be qualifying.
    Wow! Really great for promotion of worlds most attractive motor racing!

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Lorca View Post
    The fuel limit for the race is ridiculous, drivers will have to perfect new "throttle techniques" for fuel saving. It would make a lot of sense to increase the fuel limit, if only for the first year.
    it's called PULSE and GLIDE...i do it all the time in my jetta TDI....and i get awesome fuel mileage...
    what u do is accelerate for a while and then take the foot off the accelerator and let the car glide....then do it again...

    drivers will become a MASTER at this, believe you me....
    Forza Ferrari SEMPRE!!!

  15. #495
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    Problem is... I think Renault is the least thirsty of them all...
    Die Perd se naam is pegasus abdel kader schrikt der woestijnen van bagdad tot dakar, seun van benedictus ernius quintus magnus van nassay en irma vor schimmelpernning von appeldoorn van tahiti in die heilige eg verbind kragtens die ewige edik uitgevaardig deur keiser tertius tillius theorodus en biskop merkenzein de mont saint allegonde van die vatikan.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzi View Post
    It's actually a fact The engines are capable of using A LOT more fuel during the race than the regs allow (100 kg from start to finish), so it's really unlikely that we'll see anyone not saving fuel at any point in the race. The only time we'll be able to see the cars going all out, will be qualifying.
    Well enniges in Q will be pushed a lot more but, in reality, engines may never be 'all out' as fuel mass flow is also limited: 5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Lorca View Post
    The fuel limit for the race is ridiculous, drivers will have to perfect new "throttle techniques" for fuel saving. It would make a lot of sense to increase the fuel limit, if only for the first year.
    One of the three engine suppliers will have to ask for a change sooner or later, or else we will see a lot of expensive broken engines.
    The 2.4 v8 being raced this year can just about cover 4.108 Miles Per Gallon.
    The Turbo v6 with 100 Kilo of fuel will need to cover 6.160 Miles Per Gallon.
    + The turbo engine should consume even more air then the v8 = even more fuel!

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by zakfourie View Post
    Problem is... I think Renault is the least thirsty of them all...
    they seem to be this year with the v8's; who knows what's gonna happen next year
    for all we know, ferrari could have the most efficient and most reliable engine on the grid...NO one knows, we're all gonna have to wait and see what's gonna happen in winter testing as well as races
    Forza Ferrari SEMPRE!!!

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    One of the three engine suppliers will have to ask for a change sooner or later, or else we will see a lot of expensive broken engines.
    The 2.4 v8 being raced this year can just about cover 4.108 Miles Per Gallon.
    The Turbo v6 with 100 Kilo of fuel will need to cover 6.160 Miles Per Gallon.
    + The turbo engine should consume even more air then the v8 = even more fuel!

    Let's not forget the added power from ERS- that should offset some fuel consumption... 160hp for 33 seconds. There are going to be a lot of variables next season.. but as we've seen, most teams tend to migrate to a common solution. It will be interesting to see how the teams will use the ERS, if it will be just to power KERS or will it be used to spool the turbo so less revs are needed from the engine, power on board devices?

  20. #500
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    Since the chassis are already designed within very strict guidelines, it would be virtually impossible to increase their fuel capacity (unless the currently rather small drivers were replaced by midgets). So the only solution may be to bring back refueling. Pit stops are already required by the mandate to use two different tires, so why not allow the addition of something like up to 25kg of fuel at one stop and gradually reduce that amount as the cars become more and more efficient. A car that requires less or no additional fuel would be rewarded with a quicker pit stop. That actually of plays into the FIA's desire to reward fuel efficiency. Surely F1 can figure out how to add 25kg of fuel safely. Unfortunately, it is contrary to the FIA's desire to impose an egalitarian regime through strict rule making wherein no manufacturer of team is allowed to benefit from innovation not already thought of by some board in Geneva.

  21. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by zakfourie View Post
    Problem is... I think Renault is the least thirsty of them all...
    Vettel doesn't think so....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel
    “Qualifying will not change but what worries me more is the race, after having done quite a few simulations. Because with a 100kg fuel limit you have to be very careful with the throttle. I hope that we will be able to push to the limit for the whole race, because this is our job..”

  22. #502
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    Massa fears 2014 F1 show will suffer because of new rules
    By Jonathan Noble and Sam Tremayne Thursday, October 10th 2013, 11:48 GMT

    Felipe Massa fears that Formula 1's new 2014 regulations could make for far less interesting races if outright performance is superseded by efficiency.

    The Brazilian's comments come after Ferrari's director of engineering warned that fuel saving could determine the outcome of grands prix next season.

    And while Massa insists it is too early to panic, he admits the potential loss of downforce and grip - allied to greater fuel saving – could spoil the spectacle next year.

    "I think the cars will have a lot less downforce than what we have now, [and] with tyres that maybe will be even harder," Massa said.

    "So the grip level will be very low, so I think everything will be different – the way you drive, the way you race, the way you manage the car, the fuel and everything.

    "It can be definitely very frustrating to do the race saving fuel from the beginning, but it's not just at the beginning - it will be [the whole] championship.

    "It is difficult to complain about something we don't know how it's going to be, so let's wait and see.

    "But if it's really like that, it won't be very interesting, it won't be very nice talking about the driver."

    Massa said the changes could also make the sport harder to follow for casual fans, adding: "So many things in Formula 1 are difficult to understand.

    "There are so many people who just turn on the television to watch the race sometimes, you have so many things you don't understand.

    "So I hope it will be interesting for the people to watch, and I hope it can be a little bit interesting for the drivers.

    "We'll see how it's going to be and we'll complain at the right time – not before."


    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110502
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  23. #503
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    Turbo: Renault - BorgWarner and Ferrari - Honeywell?
    The Mercedes pulled detected IHI technology and develop the supercharging on his own


    In Maranello argue that the V6 Turbo engines shown so far by Renault and Mercedes are not even distant relatives from units that will start the season 2014 mounted on the car as a result of the regulatory Revolution decided by FIA. Each manufacturer tries to keep the confidential project choices: Jean Todt wants to have a carbon footprint to Formula 1 in the future, requiring a reduction in consumption evaluated in over 30% that will have beneficial effects in decreasing emissions. The watchword was downsizing: just 1.6 litres engine displacement will be supercharged with a turbocharger and can recover kinetic energy with the KERS that may have a capacity almost twice the current (120 KW and will turn to 32 thousand revolutions per minute) and the thermal energy of the turbine through the ERS that will deliver 90 KW 120 thousand turning laps, which will be those of the turbine! Today the cars have batteries with a capacity constrained by rules, while in 2014 will 2 megajoule. The collection should ensure an output of about 750 HP, in line with the current naturally aspirated V8 engines from 2.4 liters in displacement.

    The requirement not to exceed a consumption of 100 kg of fuel per hour, impose important project choices: it is said that the OEMs are looking for maximum power as was the case in the years ' 80: "we will have quite different races next year , said Pat Fry, technical director of Ferrari- there will be a fixed maximum quantity of fuel for the race. There may be considerable difference between maximum possible speed and rhythm in the race, maybe just at the lowest end of the energy saving and fuel. A difference that goes to the extent of a second and a half lap during the race. "


    RENAULT WITH BORGWARNER (KKK)?
    Know choose right partner is crucial: large manufacturers have tried to bind with exclusive suppliers. There are three testing (waiting for Honda that will arrive in 2015) and there are three historical writers of turbo with a solid tradition in the racing world. The names? Simple: KKK, Garrett and IHI. Over the years the companies that control the various groups have changed name, so let us not be fooled if should be the BorgWarner to bind with Renault Sport F1. BorgWarner is the expression of the KKK. What for years was regarded as the benchmark in terms of impellers and palette. Crossing the information of various manufacturers we have reconstructed a possible grid of suppliers, but are different that are left of alternative escape routes ...


    MERCEDES WITH TECHNOLOGY IHI
    Mercedes, on the other hand, he decided to have full control over the entire project: don't want to outsource some aspects of turbo compound. The Germans, for example, sembrarebbero would like to use unedited Bosch injectors now that the regulation makes it possible to achieve a pressure of 500 bar with direct fuel injection, a threshold that has never been achieved by a petrol engine for high performance. As for the turbo would have detected the Japanese IHI and technology would give life to specific research center in Germany, where there are about fifty experts to develop the theme of overfeeding (not only for racing, but also for the entire product line of three-pointed Star). Mercedes self-sufficiency can bear fruit, but it also has risks: do not have "open" faces the market with vendors means that basic choices ' must ' be the right ones from the beginning, because it is inevitable some closure of other specialists to see innovative solutions, fearing that might end up being "copied".

    FERRARI WITH HONEYWELL (GARRETT)?
    And Ferrari? Would reach an agreement with Honeywell. Would Americans of Garrett with which historical collaboration than contributing who tied the pony to this team. There is only one match between Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes, as well as Honeywell, IHI and BorgWarner. Who would have guessed the combination more functional? We'll find out only in a few month ...
    http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/315...-con-honeywell

  24. #504
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    NEWEY ADMITS 2014 RED BULL 'UGLY'
    Friday 11 Oktober at 07:35 : Oct.11 (GMM) Red Bull designer Adrian Newey has admitted his new car for 2014 is "ugly".

    "The new Red Bull is ugly. Unfortunately," he is quoted by the German news agency SID.

    Briton Newey, widely regarded as the best car designer in F1, is not at Suzuka this weekend as he focuses instead on the challenge of the radical 2014 rules.

    He said he is working on the RB10 for "four of the five days" of the working week.

    He said the reason for the 'ugly' 2014 car is because of the new aerodynamic rules, sending designers down the path of penning a "hook nose".

    But the bigger concern for F1's technical boffins is the new powertrain rules, which Newey said are "more complex than ever before".

    Agreed Alain Prost, Renault ambassador: "We have three engine manufacturers, and none of them are particularly optimistic.

    "Reliability is the biggest challenge at the moment, to be honest," he added.

    Mercedes' Toto Wolff, however, is excited.

    "A month ago I was in Maranello and saw their engine factory and thought: 'German engineering ingenuity against Italian improvisation and French laissez-faire'."

    Ferrari driver Felipe Massa, however, is most concerned about the 'show'.

    "Yes, it could be very frustrating to have to save fuel," said the Brazilian at Suzuka.

    "I just hope it can be interesting to watch for the spectators and viewers and that it can also be interesting for the drivers," he added.


    http://www.onestopstrategy.com/daily...27ugly%27.html
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  25. #505
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    That's what I was worried about, they may keep the bulkhead high, while curve the tip of the nose down to meet the new rule.

    Still it sounds like that's the least of everyone's worries. I hope the engine situation won't ruin racing.

  26. #506
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    Why was Wolff in maranello? How did he gain entry? Aren't we being a bit naive here? We should be wary of Mercedes as they're a cunning team. I remember a story of Horner visiting maranello but I never hear any stories of Stefano going to the other teams factories?

  27. #507
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    So newey is working almost flat out on the 2014 car whereas we still have fry and Allison showing up for the race weekends? Actually this suggests newey is working 7 days a week of which 4 days are on the 2014 car and 3 days being the Friday Saturday and Sunday with the pitwall. The man is a machine! Vettel was right with his remarks about the hard work that red bull put in as obnoxious as it may sound to the others.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamim179 View Post
    Why was Wolff in maranello? How did he gain entry? Aren't we being a bit naive here? We should be wary of Mercedes as they're a cunning team. I remember a story of Horner visiting maranello but I never hear any stories of Stefano going to the other teams factories?
    I've watched a National Geographic on how the 599 is build, they show the interior of the engine factory and how the engine for the 599 is assembled. So a view of the factory inside is certainly public knowledge. I'm sure Ferrari doesn't show these VIP visitors any parts related to F1. But a factory tour seems pretty harmless.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamim179 View Post
    So newey is working almost flat out on the 2014 car whereas we still have fry and Allison showing up for the race weekends? Actually this suggests newey is working 7 days a week of which 4 days are on the 2014 car and 3 days being the Friday Saturday and Sunday with the pitwall. The man is a machine! Vettel was right with his remarks about the hard work that red bull put in as obnoxious as it may sound to the others.
    Is not just Newey. To be fair i havent seen James at track for couple races now. All teams work hard, no team works harder than others, they all work just as hard as each other.
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  30. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    That's what I was worried about, they may keep the bulkhead high, while curve the tip of the nose down to meet the new rule.

    Still it sounds like that's the least of everyone's worries. I hope the engine situation won't ruin racing.
    Think the front end/nose will look a little bit like how the Brawn was.
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