Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[mirafiori]

...so this is getting better and better now...so we were in this all along?? this can't be right, is it?? have we also tested the "so much talked about tires" with teh 2013 car as well??

As far as I know we did a test after Bahrain this year, but we should be ok as this was done in a 2011 spec car. Where as Mercedes did a test in the current 2013 car. Which is not allowed.

[Nero Horse]

...so this is getting better and better now...so we were in this all along?? this can't be right, is it?? have we also tested the "so much talked about tires" with teh 2013 car as well??

NO, we weren't in this all along. And NO, we didn't test with this year's car, it was the 2011 spec car that we used in Bahrain, not the current F138. I don't understand at all what FIA could possibly want from us? Ferrari haven't done anything wrong.

Perhaps Merc is just trying to drag us down with them, by pointing fingers.

[Ferris]

NO, we weren't in this all along. And NO, we didn't test with this year's car, it was the 2011 spec car that we used in Bahrain, not the current F138. I don't understand at all what FIA could possibly want from us? Ferrari haven't done anything wrong.

Perhaps Merc is just trying to drag us down with them, by pointing fingers.

Relax! The way I read this is that Merc are trying to build a case saying that it was not their responsibility how the test was conducted as Pirelli requested them to do the test. The question is whether Pirelli asked Merc to use a 2013 chassis or not?

The FIA getting Ferrari involved is a way for the FIA to demonstrate how the teams should conduct these tests as Ferrari did not use a 2013 car or drivers or as rumoured with Merc, they also didn't use any other development parts. So Ferrari's presence is I think going to be used to prove that Merc did not follow the sporting regs as Ferrari was also asked to do a test for Pirelli but followed the sporting regs to the letter in terms of vintage of chassis, drivers used, etc.

Also of interest is that in La Stampa they have reported that during the Merc/Pirelli test in Barcelona where both Lewis and Nico were present, Lewis actually posted on his twitter account photos of him being in Florida... There was a clear intention it seems to mislead and deceive the public.

[Alonso14]

When we conduct our wind-tunnel testing do we (and other teams generally) use 2013 Pirelli tyres? Because if the answer is no that would imply that teams are not allowed to use 2013 spec tyres in non-FIA sanctioned events (Grand prix, pre-season testing, whatever).

[Ferris]

Warning. But be ready for the Ferrari haters to state that the FIA has sided with Ferrari again when Merc get penalised and we do not because we followed the sporting regs. Somehow i think the haters will overlook the facts.

[Ferris]

When we conduct our wind-tunnel testing do we (and other teams generally) use 2013 Pirelli tyres? Because if the answer is no that would imply that teams are not allowed to use 2013 spec tyres in non-FIA sanctioned events (Grand prix, pre-season testing, whatever).

Wind tunnel testing is not the same as track testing and of course they simulate 2013 tyres in the tunnel. I think wind tunnel testing is not deemed to be an "event" anyway.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I'm not sure the FIA rules will matter if the Ferrari test was done by Corse Clienti.

[Nero Horse]

Warning. But be ready for the Ferrari haters to state that the FIA has sided with Ferrari again when Merc get penalised and we do not because we followed the sporting regs. Somehow i think the haters will overlook the facts.

Who cares what the pathetic haters think?! They're nobody and their opinion means absolutely nothing. Haters gonna hate...meh *shrugs*. And besides, Ferrari wasn't the only team who filed a protest against Merc, so calm down.

[sagi58]

... I don't understand at all what FIA could possibly want from us? Ferrari haven't done anything wrong. ...

When I first read about this, my first thought was that finally the FIA was being proactive.
Rather than prolong this whole mess, having Ferrari present will allow the FIA to verify/clarify
any claims Mercedes makes regarding Ferrari and what they did indeed test!
I guess it's obvious, even to the FIA, that Mercedes will defend themselves by using that lame
excuse, especially in light of the glaring differences in the cars and personnel doing the testing.

[Ferris]

Who cares what the pathetic haters think?! They're nobody and their opinion means absolutely nothing. Haters gonna hate...meh *shrugs*. And besides, Ferrari wasn't the only team who filed a protest against Merc, so calm down.

Don't stress. There was nothing in my post that suggested i was anything but calm. Simply flagging a problem with the said haters before it happens so others wont get too caught up in it.

[Ferris]

When I first read about this, my first thought was that finally the FIA was being proactive.
Rather than prolong this whole mess, having Ferrari present will allow the FIA to verify/clarify
any claims Mercedes makes regarding Ferrari and what they did indeed test!
I guess it's obvious, even to the FIA, that Mercedes will defend themselves by using that lame
excuse, especially in light of the glaring differences in the cars and personnel doing the testing.

Exactly, this is why I thought it was a good thing for Ferrari to also be called before the FIA as it is will be totally transparent as to the differences of the two tests and that one complied with the sporting regulations while the other did not effectively destroying the defence position of Mercedes.

[Jacquesvw]

The Ferrari F150 that was used in the tire test doesn't even have the same type of front suspension than the current car, so it cannot be considered to be technically similar.

Does anyone know who drove the Ferrari in the test?

[SoumyaBanerjee]

Don't stress. There was nothing in my post that suggested i was anything but calm. Simply flagging a problem with the said haters before it happens so others wont get too caught up in it.

The evolving trend is that its mostly the Hamilton fans who are taking potshots at Ferrari over this issue, for obvious reasons...at times, we tend to forget that Ham fans don't have any more love for us than the DeadBull and SV fans do.

[Massimo]

The Ferrari F150 that was used in the tire test doesn't even have the same type of front suspension than the current car, so it cannot be considered to be technically similar.

Does anyone know who drove the Ferrari in the test?

De La Rosa.

[Kristof_F40]

I just think there are 2 "things" under investigation: 1) the fact that Pirelli invited a team to a test, and that the drivers of the team were allowed to drive, whereas on normal tests, they use their own car and drivers, if they ask a team shouldn't they ask al teams? 2) Merc using a 2013 spec car

So, for us, I don't think we are to blame, Pirelli asked us, we agreed, no other teams were asked -> Pirelli is to blame (same thing for Merc)
For Merc, they used a 2013 spec car which is against regulations...

I think Pirelli is in serious trouble..

[mirafiori]

Its been one week now since the allegation, I wish the FIA would tell us more on what is going on, we are the paying public we should no more. For me it seems like there are some worried people behind the scenes.Sorry boys and girls I am just anxious to know what is happening.

[Massimo]

Its been one week now since the allegation, I wish the FIA would tell us more on what is going on, we are the paying public we should no more. For me it seems like there are some worried people behind the scenes.Sorry boys and girls I am just anxious to know what is happening.

This comment was written by "Mattpt55" on another F1 site.

Hembrey: Oi, anyone want to test for 2014 tires after Spain?

Brawn: Maybe, Let me make a few calls. Couldn’t hurt.

Horner: Sod off you , you’re the reason our cars haven’t won every single race ever, no way we’re doing you a favor ever

Domenicali: Been there done that plus your espresso is wretched. Ooops, did I say that out loud. No. Close one

Boullier: Sorry, got to go try and balance my checkbook. Think it might take a while. Maybe next time.

Everyone Else: Us too.

Exit All Stage Left

Brawn: We might be able to work it out, it would be easier just to use the cars we already have there.

Hembrey: Not a problem, lets just check with the FIA

Nameless FIA Bureaucrat : Umm.., Well, let’s just say that as long as the equitable state is neither too much or little or in other words never when in fact the importance of always in certain instances being in a general state of agreement.

Brawn: Crikey, Google translate sucks

Hembrey: Importantly, I didn’t see the word "no" in that email so it’s probably fine. After all what are they gonna do anyway.

Brawn: Great, I’ll start making reservations.

Hembrey: Hang on, got an incoming call from the factory..(In a very loud voice) What’s that you want to test some 2013 tires too? Shouldn’t be a problem, we just won’t tell Ross.

Hangs Up

Brawn: Everything Cool?

Hembrey: Yup. you didn’t hear any of that did you?

Brawn(smilling): Not a word. See you in a few weeks. By the way, this espresso is fantastic.

[ManFromMilan]

The FIA is taking very long to formulate a response. I mean this cannot be a very difficult issue to finger the guilty part or parties.

Hope they are not taking this long just to let Merc get away with it.

[Nova]

WIth the politics involved, Im surprised theres been any news at all.

[mirafiori]

Click on planet F1, the other forums just love it when Ferrari could be in the firing line.

[REDARMYSOJA]

De La Rosa.

Do you know this for certain Massimo? Do you have a link to a story saying this?

[REDARMYSOJA]

Found these photos of Ferrari's test, and it was at Barcelona, not Bahrain.

[Rob]

I know isnt Pirelli news but tyre news...

Hankook rules out replacing Pirelli as F1 tyre supplier in 2014
By Jamie O'Leary and Edd Straw Saturday, June 1st 2013, 15:31 GMT

Hankook has ruled out becoming Formula 1 tyre supplier in 2014 if Pirelli does not agree a new contract.

The South Korean company, which currently supplies tyres in a number of categories including the DTM and the Formula 3 European Championship, is open to a move to grand prix racing in the future.

But the company's DTM competition engineer Michael Eckert has confirmed it is too late to consider such a move next year.

He added that the lack of testing opportunities could also stymie such a move in the long term.

"For 2014, it's completely impossible not only because of the lack of tyre development time," he told AUTOSPORT when asked about the viability of a move into F1 next season.

"Even if Hankook wants to take three, four, five years to jump into Formula 1 as a supplier, the lack of testing opportunities would make it impossible.

"With the current cars and drivers, it's impossible [to test] so you need to find a suitable number of vehicles and drivers that would allow you to get some reliable feedback."

RULES UNCERTAINTY DISSUADES HANKOOK

Eckert added that question marks over the long-term tyre regulations would also make it difficult to commit to developing F1 rubber given the lead time required.

"Even if we started this year with the first tyre test, it would take easily three years until you can finish a safe and performing F1 tyre," he said.

"Now the regulations are changing; engine formula, chassis, and aerodynamics... nobody even knows about the dimensions of the tyres for 2014 - they are still not fixed.

"It's not 100 per cent certain they'll continue with 13-inch tyres. It might be 15 or even 17.

"It could happen in the next five years that F1 cars are on 18-inch tyres."

Eckert confirmed that Hankook is keen to continue the expansion of its motorsport portfolio.

In recent years the DTM and European F3 have been added, as have Superstars, Auto GP and other high-profile series.

F1 NOT ESSENTIAL IN EXPANSION PLANS

F1 will remain an option, although he stressed that no decision has been taken that it must end up there.

"It's not obligatory that F1 has to be the final destination series," he said.

"From an engineering point of view, F1 is the greatest challenge, but from a financial point of view it is a huge investment.

"You have to be ready with all aspects of your company, not only with the tyre itself but the infrastructure regarding the logistics.

"Currently, all the Hankook tyre production is in Korea and it would be a big help to have a European base like Pirelli does with Turkey.

"We are not ready to jump into Formula 1 for 2014, it's not our goal short-term.

"Certainly we will follow up on it and we are interested in new opportunities from a business point of view and also, from a branding point of view, to go into new markets."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107817

[Kyss4k]

Wow... media (at least ours) are now trying to turn the attention towards Ferrari in this case. This is as dirty as it can be. I just read (don't know if it was posted here), that they are investigating Ferrari because they believe, that F150 (car used in testing for Pirelli) is not too different to F138... WHAT?! Completely different suspension (pull-rod / push-rod) which is absolutely crucial, directly blown diffuser, low nose,... In which universe is that not "too different"? God I'm so mad right now and I am getting sick of recent F1. Just hope Ferrari won't let anyone to screw with them.

[ManFromMilan]

Well the FIA could have put a stop to all these false news and lies being snapped up as facts. But they are to busy messing around to not even enforce their own rules.

Now the Ferrari legal test will always be used as an counter for the blatant illegal test of Merc.

Well done FIA.

[Massimo]

Do you know this for certain Massimo? Do you have a link to a story saying this?

Yes i do ;) most of the Italian media was saying that De La Rosa did the test, didn't get the idea it was a big deal. http://www.f1passion.it/2013/06/f1-f...to-in-bahrain/
The test was in Bahrain, the pictures you posted are from a month or so ago, and was also Corse Clienti, a very fortunate (and wealthy) customer was driving the car.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Yes i do ;) most of the Italian media was saying that De La Rosa did the test, didn't get the idea it was a big deal. http://www.f1passion.it/2013/06/f1-f...to-in-bahrain/
The test was in Bahrain, the pictures you posted are from a month or so ago, and was also Corse Clienti, a very fortunate (and wealthy) customer was driving the car.

OK, thanks, but are we sure the test was held in Bahrain? All I have seen so far is that the test was held "after Bahrain", it doesn't really say where.

[Massimo]

OK, thanks, but are we sure the test was held in Bahrain? All I have seen so far is that the test was held "after Bahrain", it doesn't really say where.

Bahrain is wat most of them say, Mercedes did their test in Barcelona from Wednesday till Friday, so i assume Ferrari did theirs also on those days after the Gp.
Must be a bit strange, all the other teams packing up and Ferrari staying. No other team wondering what they were going to do?

[REDARMYSOJA]

Bahrain is wat most of them say, Mercedes did their test in Barcelona from Wednesday till Friday, so i assume Ferrari did theirs also on those days after the Gp.
Must be a bit strange, all the other teams packing up and Ferrari staying. No other team wondering what they were going to do?

Yes, I see a lot of people saying it happened at Bahrain, but all stories only say after Bahrain and don't really say where it happened.

But since it was a Corsi Clienti car apparently that was tested, I suppose the team would have packed up and left after Bahrain.

[Massimo]

Yes, I see a lot of people saying it happened at Bahrain, but all stories only say after Bahrain and don't really say where it happened.

But since it was a Corsi Clienti car apparently that was tested, I suppose the team would have packed up and left after Bahrain.

Yes that makes sense, but i completely don't get the point the FIA is trying to make. The test was done with 2 year old car, with De La Rosa and not with one of the first drivers, Corse Clienti brought all the equipment and Pirelli payed for it. That is exactly the rules the FIA made for those tests. And that all the other teams were aware of it, but since it was a Pirelli test, it's not Ferrari's job to inform all others.
Oh and the car had to be significant different, 2011 F150° Italia push rod suspension, F138 pull rod suspension, completely different geometry, if that's not significant enough, i don't know what is.