Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[Massimo181]

Sounds like Merc are totally in the wrong and some how we have been slip streamed into the argument as well.

Did we not have an FIA person at our test?

Seems ironic also that Jean Todt has even expressed and interest in bringing Ferrari into the hearing! To me the fact that we tested a 2011 car and Merc with a 2013 car and two current drivers there is only one guilty team here?!

Ridiculous the FIA are and so is Jean Todt!

[Ste]

Insight from Mark Priestly.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/0...medium=twitter

[Senna4Ever]

Just in case of (and that is just mind game) we could really learn something from this secret test in Barcelona, we were able to transform this for the race on the same track.
As it seems that we've nothing learned really any further as it would have helped in Monaco too. Which was not the case. As if this test would really helped us I would expect that we know how to use them also on other tracks

Different situation for Merc.: they where testing in Barcelona and then won in Monaco which is a completely different track to where they tested the tires.

It will be interesting what will happen in Canada this weekend: if Merc. can keep their performance and the tire issue solved during the race. Or if it is only a Monaco phenomenon ...

[Alessandra]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22762318

Hard not to love Gary Anderson

[Suzie]

Case against Ferrari dropped.

http://www.fia.com/news/pirelli-and-mercedes

The Monaco Grand Prix Stewards raised in their report to the FIA an issue concerning a tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli with the participation of Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013[1].

The FIA requested clarifications from Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in this respect.

The FIA also asked questions to Scuderia Ferrari Team, which took part in a tyre testing with Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013.

The FIA requested all the other F1 Teams to provide the FIA with information they may have regarding any tests carried out by Pirelli during the 2013 season.

In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the President of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:

To close the case as regard to Scuderia Ferrari Team considering that its participation in a tyre testing organized by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.
To bring the case concerning the tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013 before the FIA International Tribunal because it results from the inquiry that the conditions of this testing may constitute a breach of the applicable FIA rules.
The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.

[1] The Stewards' report follows the protests made by Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Ferrari Team on the occasion of the Monaco Grand Prix against Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 concerning its participation in the Barcelona tests (15-17 May 2013).

[Greig]

So as expected they brought us in to show we done it right, no foul and Mercedes have cheated

[Suzie]

...thanks to 'the Bum', no less

Adam Cooper @adamcooperf1
It was the decision of Jean Todt to proceed with the Mercedes case and drop the Ferrari one.

[Greig]

bet the chin will be phoning the bum to plead for his new team....

[impactX]

Bringing Ferrari into this inquiry was the right process, or else Mercedes would have dragged us in anyway. It's all about due process and this way, Mercedes has no defense for their action.

[sagi58]

Mercedes referred to International Tribunal over tyre test row

Mercedes will face an investigation from the FIA's International Tribunal regarding its recent secret tyre test with Pirelli, while Ferrari has been cleared for its test with a 2011 car.The Mercedes test at Barcelona was referred to the stewards of the Monaco Grand Prix when Red Bull and Ferrari lodged a protest on that weekend.
The FIA had been waiting for a report from the Monaco stewards before deciding if Mercedes had a case to answer, and it has decided to pass the matter on to the International Tribunal.

How the International Tribunal works

The sport's governing body explained that it requested information from those involved and rival teams before coming to its conclusion
.
Ferrari's own test with Pirelli, conducted at Barcelona in April with a 2011 car, was deemed not to breach the rules.
An FIA statement said: "In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the president of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:

"To close the case as regard to Scuderia Ferrari Team considering that its participation in a tyre test organised by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.

"To bring the case concerning the tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013 before the FIA International Tribunal because it results from the inquiry that the conditions of this testing may constitute a breach of the applicable FIA rules.

"The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules."

THE FULL STATEMENT FROM THE FIA

The Monaco Grand Prix Stewards raised in their report to the FIA an issue concerning a tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli with the participation of Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013[1].

The FIA requested clarifications from Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in this respect.

The FIA also asked questions to Scuderia Ferrari Team, which took part in a tyre test with Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013.

The FIA requested all the other F1 Teams to provide the FIA with information they may have regarding any tests carried out by Pirelli during the 2013 season.

In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the President of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:

* To close the case as regard to Scuderia Ferrari Team considering that its participation in a tyre test organized by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.

* To bring the case concerning the tyre testing session carried out by Pirelli and Team Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 in Barcelona on 15-17 May 2013 before the FIA International Tribunal because it results from the inquiry that the conditions of this testing may constitute a breach of the applicable FIA rules.

The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.
[1] The Stewards' report follows the protests made by Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Ferrari Team on the occasion of the Monaco Grand Prix against Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 concerning its participation in the Barcelona tests (15-17 May 2013).

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107882

[killer]

It wasn't mentioned in the memo but is the Tribunal held to a deadline for issuing a decision? Surely prolonging this is not an option.

[mirafiori]

It wasn't mentioned in the memo but is the Tribunal held to a deadline for issuing a decision? Surely prolonging this is not an option.

I read somewhere the decision could take up to the middle of July, just after the German Grand Prix. Any way great news for Ferrari, it is very important we maintain our high sporting standards.

[killer]

I read somewhere the decision could take up to the middle of July, just after the German Grand Prix. Any way great news for Ferrari, it is very important we maintain our high sporting standards.

Cheers, mate.

I think the middle of July may be too late. There will have been 3 GPs completed and a significant number of points gathered by then. It's in everyone's--Mercedes included--interests to the get the decision out ASAP.

[mirafiori]

Cheers, mate.

I think the middle of July may be too late. There will have been 3 GPs completed and a significant number of points gathered by then. It's in everyone's--Mercedes included--interests to the get the decision out ASAP.

Yeah I agree, but we can start by having a great weekend.

[Alessandra]

[QUOTE=Suzie;788812]Case against Ferrari dropped.



Great start to the Candian weekend!

[redkid]

Here's hoping that this is not a duplicate post of sorts http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/05/fia/

“The FIA International Tribunal is called upon to make a decision in compliance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.”

The FIA also confirmed it will close its case against Ferrari. “Its participation in a tyre testing organised by Pirelli in Barcelona on 23-24 April 2013 using for this purpose a 2011 car is not deemed to contravene the applicable FIA rules.”

The truth prevailed, Forza Ferrari!

[Hornet]

Good to see the FIA releasing that official statement to clear some important things up. Tired of seeing the media dragging Ferrari into a mess that's all about Mercedes and Pirelli

[Rosso Corsa]

"In the light of all the replies received and in view of the information gathered during this inquiry, the president of the FIA, acting as the FIA prosecuting body, has decided:..."

Is it usual for the FIA to declare the president as the decision maker when publishing verdicts?

[Kiwi Nick]

Two points: 1) Of course the stewards at Monaco could not rule n the protest, the infraction did not happen at that GP and there was no way of them knowing what had actually happened. They had to pass the protest along to the FIA. 2) The tribunal should be able to decide this quickly. Did Merc use their 2013 car for the test in Spain? Yes or No, check the box.

There should be no extenuating circumstances, no reasons why Merc did not use an older car. There may be a question as to whether or not Pirelli were obliged to insist that an older car be used, but, frankly, I don't care. The real serious work for the tribunal will be determining the penalty for Mercedes and whether or not Pirelli should be penalized as well (I don't see anything in the regs that requires them to police what car Merc uses.)

So, let's hope that the tribunal is swift and severe.

[Alonsomaniac]

Mercedes is in trouble now. I really don't see any way to get out of this situation without any severe penalty, so this will definitely influence this years championship.
That Ferrari is cleared of all unregularities is no surprise as they perfectly followed the rules.

[Senna4Ever]

Relax Frank, looks like we have won, there seems to be an agreement to have 4 inseason test sessions of two days, starting 2014.
I love it when a plan comes together

Massimo ... the prophet

German Website

excerpt:
First the teams had voted against additional testing during the season (5:6 against)
It seems that Merc. changed position and no it has been switched to 6:5 pro additional testing
Now they are working on an agreement that also the small teams can live with (Stefano offers to reduce simulation time for example ...)

[Kingdom Hearts]

So now two months of drama till they decide to fine Merc.

[stefa]

So now two months of drama till they decide to fine Merc.

As long as I can recall it was always like that. There was no case to my knowledge that verdict was made very fast...

[REDARMYSOJA]

I don't think this helps Mercedes.

When asked if he or Mercedes was able to learn anything from the test, Rosberg claimed: "Nope, just Pirelli. I was trying to give them as much information as possible and what I was feeling to help them out with their tyre development program."

However, when then asked if he knew which tyres he was testing, in contrast to recent comments from Pirelli Rosberg replied: "Yes, for sure, of course.

"Yeah, definitely, I was aware of what the ideas were and what they were testing because I need to know that to try and be able to pinpoint for them best what's going on and what directions are likely to be best for them."

Rosberg's comments come despite Pirelli stating previously:

"The tyre tests were conducted "in the dark", which means that the teams had no information on which specifications were being tested or about the goal of the testing; nor did they receive any type of information afterwards."

I knew what I was testing - Rosberg

[mirafiori]

I don't think this helps Mercedes.



I knew what I was testing - Rosberg

I did say in a previous post that Mercedes would know what tyre it was testing, after Ross Brawn had said, we did not know what tyres we were testing, as tyres were unmarked, Brawn said only Pirelli new what tyres were being run. Ross Brawn was lying, and I still believe Brawn, Hembery, Bernie, Charlie are involved in this mess.

[Rishu]

A journalist asked Rosberg, if this was not a secret test, then why did both him & Lewis used anonymous helmets? He declined to comment. Clearly, they are caught red handed, eliminating them from WCC will not be enough. Their drivers can still win WDC.

[killer]

A journalist asked Rosberg, if this was not a secret test, then why did both him & Lewis used anonymous helmets? He declined to comment. Clearly, they are caught red handed, eliminating them from WCC will not be enough. Their drivers can still win WDC.

This, plus the Lewis tweet thing, are aggravating circumstances to my mind and something the Tribunal MUST consider. I still can't believe they need more than a week to decide on this. If they said there was no case against Ferrari and given that Ferrari's case was brought to fore in juxtaposition to Mercedes', then a decision is not a difficult matter. Current car + current drivers + no notification to other teams = an infringement of the regulations.

[Ferris]

This, plus the Lewis tweet thing, are aggravating circumstances to my mind and something the Tribunal MUST consider. I still can't believe they need more than a week to decide on this. If they said there was no case against Ferrari and given that Ferrari's case was brought to fore in juxtaposition to Mercedes', then a decision is not a difficult matter. Current car + current drivers + no notification to other teams = an infringement of the regulations.

They should also ask for all the communications within the team immediately before and after the test took place.
If Merc did use the test for their own development they may have slipped up here also and sent data or requests for data that could be traced.

The FIA conducted a similar data search during spy gate so it is not impossible for this to be done again.

And I agree 100%, there is too much coincidence between Lewis' twitter posts, anonymous helmets and the track being virtually impossible to get any snaps at during the test, tests being delayed until the Wednesday following the race and the time being spit evenly between race drivers. If there was no gain for Merc or the drivers why try and be so even handed between your race drivers?

They can't honestly say it was not a secret test.

If they (merc) were smart, they should be saying Pirelli asked us to keep quiet about it because they needed the test to update the tyres and wanted our drivers to get representative data but they were worried that other teams would veto the test so they tried to cover it up even though they didn't think they were breaking any rules... Mia Culpa is the only line of defence at this stage; there is simply too much info against them.

[sagi58]

I don't think this helps Mercedes.

I knew what I was testing - Rosberg

Nor does it help Rosberg's public image as being in any way "intelligent" when he says:

Rosberg also said he hadn't expected the furore that had erupted following the test.

"It definitely wasn't to be expected because for all I knew it was perfectly normal that we were doing that. That's what the whole team thought and that's why we did it, that's the only reason because definitely we don't want to do anything that's not allowed."

I guess Mercedes doesn't allow their drivers to read/know the rules and regulations??

[sagi58]

...If they (merc) were smart, they should be saying Pirelli asked us to keep quiet about it because they needed the test to update the tyres and wanted our drivers to get representative data but they were worried that other teams would veto the test ...

Too late!! Pirelli already used the old "wuzn't me" excuse!! Pirelli has gone on record saying they didn't ask for the current Mercedes car!! Pirelli even ratted out the FIA saying that there was communication between them and Mercdes!! Somebody needs to get their story straight!!