F14-T- Development & News

[Jas]

WHY ARE THEY NOT TAKING OUR STAFF...WAAAA....HAHA, IM SURE THEY ARE TRYING!




Honda, to return to Formula 1 in 2015 as an engine supplier to McLaren, has begun to poach staff from rival manufacturers currently involved in the sport.

That is the claim of Mercedes’ motor sport chief Toto Wolff, who said that the Japanese marque’s quest for talented and experienced Formula 1 staff is “quite civilised” at the moment.

Wolff told Germany’s Auto Bild that Honda’s moves to poach Mercedes engineers is “quite normal”.

“We’re operating in a competitive environment, and I think everyone is looking for the best engineers,” he said.

“So it is not unexpected,” Wolff insisted. “We know what contracts are running out, and if we want to keep them, we will work on new ones in good time.”

Wolff refused to criticise the behaviour of McLaren’s 2015 engine supplier, who have been absent from the grid since the disastrous final two seasons as a full works Honda team in 2007 and 2008.

“At the moment we have the feeling that it is quite civilised,” said the Austrian, referring to Honda’s efforts to poach engineers.

“We do not have the impression that our engineers are excessively concerned. However, this could happen. They (Honda) need to put their programme together bit by bit.

“I could imagine at some stage their efforts to court staff becoming more aggressive,” added Wolff. (GMM)

[Nero Horse]

When is the winter testing going to start? January?

[Alonso14]

When is the winter testing going to start? January?

28-31 January - Jerez, Spain
19-22 February - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
27 February-2 March - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain

[Nero Horse]

28-31 January - Jerez, Spain
19-22 February - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
27 February-2 March - Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain

Ok, thanks

[LivingHitokiri]

I think i did read somewhere that there may be a December 2014 tyre test hold by Pirelli but i have lost the track of it ,anyone got any lead or news on that ?
Also,how is the work at the wind-tunnel going ?

[Hornet]

I think i did read somewhere that there may be a December 2014 tyre test hold by Pirelli but i have lost the track of it ,anyone got any lead or news on that ?
Also,how is the work at the wind-tunnel going ?

According to Sky, Pirelli wants that December test to help them prepare the 2014 tires, otherwise they might just make super conservative tires for the early part of 2014. But I'm not sure if the teams have agree to conduct that test.

I'd imagine now it's more important than ever. We did not get any test for the 2014 prototype in Brazil due to the weather. I do hope the teams agree.

[LivingHitokiri]

According to Sky, Pirelli wants that December test to help them prepare the 2014 tires, otherwise they might just make super conservative tires for the early part of 2014. But I'm not sure if the teams have agree to conduct that test.

I'd imagine now it's more important than ever. We did not get any test for the 2014 prototype in Brazil due to the weather. I do hope the teams agree.

Cheers Hornet.
I think the teams will agree to it only because of the importance you mentioned,im sure the teams will need all the data they can get for the 2014 car since together with the fuel consumption issue with the engine these will be two of the most important factors for the next year.
Im really concerned about our engine being "greedy" in terms of fuel but i hope the boys at Maranello will manage it!

[medeni73]

Domenicali said in Brasil that our V6-engine WILL be presented around end of the year...

[Nova]

Well we could show up at the tests w/the new powertrain, right? So it could be beneficial...They can disquise the car...I think ....

[Jose Lorca]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-t...or-2014/21344/

[AfterLife]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-t...or-2014/21344/

I always thought by myself that pushrod suspension is the best option Because analyzing Rory Byrne cars throughout the years shows he always has used pushrod suspension for his designed cars and of course Adrian newey always uses pushrod suspension.

Even always i have problem with Ferrari's high nose cars in the last 4 years. They were so high comparing to likes of RedBull, Mclaren, Lotus.

[FrankAlfa]

One must understand the gains vs. loses in each design. Both Push Rod and Pull Rod design have their virtues. It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use.

[Kiwi Nick]

"It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use."

I'm pretty certain I got that in a fortune cookie about three years ago. BTW, the lottery numbers didn't work.

[Nova]

Autosprint joins Marca and Corriere dello Sport in saying that we will abandon our pullrod front suspension.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/ferrari-t...or-2014/21344/

I hope they do..there hasnt been a wcc car that ever ran that susp..and while Ferrari did better w/it than Mac did, I still felt it wasnt the right move.

[Alonso14]

One must understand the gains vs. loses in each design. Both Push Rod and Pull Rod design have their virtues. It is in the execution of the design appliction that will provide either benefit or failure of its use.

I don't think it's the execution of the suspension type as such but rather how it complements the overall design of the car. The reason the Red Bull worked so well is not simply down to suspension/front wing design/even Coanda execution but rather how well every single bit of the car was contributing to the overall idea and design of Newey and his team. Big game-changers like Mass Damper, Off-throttle exhaust blowing and double diffuser doesn't come up so often; an F1 car is an extremely complex beast. That's why everyone struggled to match Red Bull in the 09-13 regulations or Ferrari during the MSC era.

[FrankAlfa]

@ Alonso14,

You are thinking in very "Simplistic" terms. Red Bull has been doing much more than using the whole car as an interactive tool. The speed Red Bull has had for so many years has been the results of the things we do NOT see as well. I thnk only the FIA knows about what they have been doing and have not wished to fully enforce the rules. Do you remember the Engine Mapping they were told to stop last year, how about the Flexing / Dragging front wing, the Inclined Chassis, the "strange" engine sound??? Looking back there have been many things that Red Bull have "exploited" for the past 5 years. During all that time and of all the things Red Bull have tried on the race car, they have NEVER BEEN DOCKED POInTS NOR HAVE THEY BEEN EVER PENALIZED! Very Strange. Why do you think they have never been docked points and have never been penalized??? Very Strange Indeed!

[Alonso14]

The engine mapping was poor wording of the rule and they were smart, yes smart, enough to use it. If the rule states: "At 0% throttle application the engine must receive 0% throttle, at 50% - 50% and at 100% - 100%." This leave gaps between 1% - 49% and 51%-99% which the rulebook doesn't talk ban - hence it was technically legal. If you don't violate the wording of the law then you are within the boundaries of legality. The flexi wings and their control have been tightened in the last couple of years and they have passed all the tests. "Strange" engine sound means absolutely nothing and it doesn't imply wrongdoing automatically. Ferrari engineers didn't push the regulations not because they are extremely moral but because they were unable to.

I do however think that RBR should have been docked points in China, Bahrain and Canada (all in 2012) for having holes in the floor which is not legal. Their "punishment" was to remove them. That's like stealing a car and then your sentence to be to return the car and walk away. But as we know F1 is a political sport. Bernie & co. know that affecting races off the track is bad for the entertainment and viewership, coupled with the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz is a major player with his net worth, obviously they won't get touched. Just like we won't get touched if something similar happens because Ferrari IS Formula One.

And credit where credit is due. Red Bull's technical team has been doing absolutely amazing job. In 2013 they pushed the regulations to places our engineers cannot even imagine, simple as. I hate RBR and Vettel as much as every guy who hates girly Hollywood speeches and lack of competitive balance but on a technical level they were untouchable, especially by our guys.

[Hornet]

Speaking of Ferrari and Twitter.

@InsideFerrari 21m
A special testing day at Fiorano: 2014 car shakedown? Un giorno speciale di test a Fiorano: collaudo per il 2014?

BaLG8HqCIAAtZ7H.jpg

‏@InsideFerrari 6m
Practice starts on the Fiorano straight? - Prove di partenza sul rettilineo di Fiorano?

BaLMJCnCcAAz8Ug.jpg


Maybe Ferrari is just trolling. But it would be exciting if we already have the engine and car ready for a shakedown

[gjoko-mkd]

The engine mapping was poor wording of the rule and they were smart, yes smart, enough to use it. If the rule states: "At 0% throttle application the engine must receive 0% throttle, at 50% - 50% and at 100% - 100%." This leave gaps between 1% - 49% and 51%-99% which the rulebook doesn't talk ban - hence it was technically legal. If you don't violate the wording of the law then you are within the boundaries of legality. The flexi wings and their control have been tightened in the last couple of years and they have passed all the tests. "Strange" engine sound means absolutely nothing and it doesn't imply wrongdoing automatically. Ferrari engineers didn't push the regulations not because they are extremely moral but because they were unable to.

I do however think that RBR should have been docked points in China, Bahrain and Canada (all in 2012) for having holes in the floor which is not legal. Their "punishment" was to remove them. That's like stealing a car and then your sentence to be to return the car and walk away. But as we know F1 is a political sport. Bernie & co. know that affecting races off the track is bad for the entertainment and viewership, coupled with the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz is a major player with his net worth, obviously they won't get touched. Just like we won't get touched if something similar happens because Ferrari IS Formula One.

And credit where credit is due. Red Bull's technical team has been doing absolutely amazing job. In 2013 they pushed the regulations to places our engineers cannot even imagine, simple as. I hate RBR and Vettel as much as every guy who hates girly Hollywood speeches and lack of competitive balance but on a technical level they were untouchable, especially by our guys.

You are totally right

[FrankAlfa]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

[FrankAlfa]

Why Ban Engine Mapping a year earlier when Red Bull was caught doing it and now knowingly allow them to do it??? Maybe the rule was written so all of the OTHER team would not be allowed to do it???

[Hornet]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

Well, the technical rules are not written with such blanket statement. It has to define the details.

To my understanding, what the rule outlaws is a close loop system, where it takes an input (wheel spin) and cut the engine accordingly. I believe another term would be active traction control.

As far as using engine mapping to improve traction, it doesn't falls under the banned close loop TC simply because it's not a close loop system.

[Alonso14]

No, I disagree completly! No Traction Control means No Traction Control and No Engine Mapping, PERIOD! There is both the Rules as it is written and then there is the Intent of the Rules; BOTH of which the FIA is suppose to enforce! If the FIA wishes to be VERY UNDERHANDED burn all of the teams except Red Bull by allowing Red Bull to break the Written / Intent of the Rules then WHY write the Rule at all. My feeling is that the FIA allowed Red Bull get away with it and chose NOT enforce the Intent of the Rules. Could there be some kind of reason in mind???

A system that works like TC does not mean it's TC. Traction control is banned but Red Bull did not use it, they made something that reproduced in a way its effect. The rulebook is the law, finding loopholes is what engineers do. You cannot punish someone because the way you formulated the rule was not good enough and someone found a way around it. Just accept it, we were beaten. Comprehensively, I might add.

Why Ban Engine Mapping a year earlier when Red Bull was caught doing it and now knowingly allow them to do it??? Maybe the rule was written so all of the OTHER team would not be allowed to do it???

Engine mapping is not banned.

[Kiwi Nick]

Frank, you are being overly simplistic in your objections to RBR's pushing the limits of design. When the regulations say "no traction control", a prudent person must ask, "What is traction control?", or "What is engine mapping?"

The driver's feet are fundamentally "traction control", but they are obviously not illegal. So, the onus is on the rules makers to define, as precisely as they choose, what constitutes TC, that is to say, they must set the boundaries. They may choose to word their definition loosely or tightly. Loosely if they mean to encourage innovation, tightly if they mean to enforce parity among the teams. The use of a single supplier for tires is the ultimate in tight regulation. Whereas, the old style of specing engines only by displacement is an example of loose regulation that led to V-6, V-8 and V-12 engines competing against one another in the same season. Techniques and devices not outlawed should be considered to be legal. It is the goal of designers to invent or innovate while not crossing the line. To that end, it appears that RBR are the best in the business. If the FIA allow them to do things that you believe to be "illegal" then it is not RBR who have cheated, rather it is the FIA who have cheated every other team that chose not to, or was not clever enough to use the same innovations as RBR.

[Ferris]

I think this whole issue is being complicated for no reason.
Basically everything the f1 engineers do to the cars can be seen as traction control. Almost every aero appendage is designed to improve traction as with almost all mechanical components when your really think about it.

The key question is what inputs are restricted from being used to regulate the power being delivered to rear wheels.
For me there are clear regulations on that and F1 teams then try and look to use other data inputs outside of the restrictions to deliver greater traction. It is up to the FIA to determine if these new idea's should be allowed or not.

With the best budget on the grid i would expect RB to come up with the best and most innovative solutions in all areas of the car, which largely they have done.
As regulations remain stable typically the gap between the teams in terms of pace fall, this has not happened to RB as they had a similar 2013 year to Ferrari's 2004 where their previous year they almost lost the title much like Ferrari did in 2003.

Well done to RB, they are the benchmark, it is up to the others to catch up, not complain about RB breaking the rules as they are not breaking them, they are pushing their interpretation to the limit. Kind of reminds me of another team during 1995-2007. The problem is that many people didn't understand the value of Todt and Brawn until they left. Newey and Horner have learnt from Ferrari whereas we forgot our own play book.

[Sab_g]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!

[emirBoz]

yeah could be, if it's true sound is the best :)

[emirBoz]

Speaking of Ferrari and Twitter.


BaLG8HqCIAAtZ7H.jpg


BaLMJCnCcAAz8Ug.jpg


Maybe Ferrari is just trolling. But it would be exciting if we already have the engine and car ready for a shakedown

may be turbo engine testing with LaFerrari.

[tifosi1993]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
From f1technical forum, some saying ferrari could be testing next years v6t engine in laferrari test mule?
Definitely not a v12!

For comparison, here is the sound of LaFerrari's naturally aspirated V12



One thing is clear, that's not a V12. And that whining sound clearly indicates that it's a turbo engine. (And it sounds awesome)

[Sab_g]

While it could be road car development, don't think they would test it with such an open exhaust. Sounds much better than the dyno clips from Renault/merc