2013 Malaysian GP: Race Thread

[shamim179]

And this is not an issue for other teams and drivers? The sooner people accept that Massa was mediocre today for a good deal of the race the better.

I think Massa was mediocre in the beginning but good towards the end of the race. Maybe that was because the car performs better on lower fuel very much like the Lotus of last year? If that is the case we will be consistently strong towards the end of races.

[Dino]

Hope this will shut some up !

[Suzie]

And this is not an issue for other teams and drivers? The sooner people accept that Massa was mediocre today for a good deal of the race the better.

But you said he saved his tyres better than Vettel and had good pace in his penultimate stint, and that his last stint was very impressive.
Yet you're saying he was "mediocre for a good deal of the race."

Seems a bit contradictory.

[SS454]

^^^ only people that speak italian, if thats even what he's speaking.

[Forzi]

From about lap 38-39, Massa was lapping at the leaders pace and faster at times on tyres that were the exact same age as Vettel's (their 3rd stops were on the exact same lap). Massa's last stint and the back end of previous stint was very impressive and was indicative of the pace of the car. To come out and say that temps did this and that is a major let off. This has been happening with him since 2008... Alonso, since he has joined, has just made the car work. Regardless of conditions!

Towards the back end of his penultimate stint Massa made the tyres last 5 laps longer than Vettel while still maintaining good pace. I'm sorry, Massa was nowhere once again but when as you say conditions were favourable for him he miraculously picked up the pace. That, for me, is an issue.

Also, I've read stories of people claiming that Ferrari are deliberately sacrificing quali speed in favour of a race setup.

Like i said, lots of variables. The fight for the win was lost when he got boxed behind Fernando, losing places out of the exit of the corner where it happened and after copying Vettel's pit stop for the slicks (was too early, both lost time and places there). The car wasn't fast enough to catch Button who was close to 10 secs in front and then catch Mercs and RBR who were even more ahead. The car at most was close to their speed, which Felipe showed at some parts of the race, but not 0,5 sec faster to get back in the fight for the win.

[Dino]

Alonso's mistake in bad conditions and only because Vettel was too slow.

[scuderiafan]

I think the car was a lot faster than the McLaren even today. The car was good. Compared to the RBR and the Merc I don't know (maybe a little slower or around the same) but good.
But, Felipe said he had balance issues in the wet. This isn't him being bad, this can happen to anyone. And it wasn't that it was because it was wet. Here are his exact quotes.

“Today’s race was really complicated, because starting with a new set of intermediates on a track that was very damp at some points and completely dry at others, prevented me from having a good pace and I lost ground to many other drivers on the first lap. Maybe bringing forward the first stop to fit dry tyres was a slightly risky choice, because the track was still damp and this cost me time.

I guess he had issues with the inters on a partly dry partly wet track.
But he said in the dry conditions where true pace can be shown, he was really comfortable and fast.

So respectfully, I disagree with both you guys. Felipe was good and the car was good. But neither were truly suited to the conditions we had in the race. If it had been fully dry or fully wet, maybe something different could have been seen.
I believe Fernando when he said he could have fought for the win, as he likes to play down expectations.

This is going to be agonizing waiting for China

[Senna4Ever]

incredible how we managed it last year with a much inferior car to keep up until last race.
but maybe the story of the inferior car was a tale and the driver crap.

[Ferrari2183]

Or the sooner you accept the F138 was not all that good in Malaysia the better?

Whatever you say. This is just the usual issues with Massa which get swept under a rug around here. It's not him, it's the car when his teammate is out collecting podiums and wins.

I must now accept that a "not all that good car" miraculously became capable of front running pace because of this and that as if other teams and drivers don't have to contend with the same thing. We've seen this before with Massa but yet nobody is willing to acknowledge it.

[Ferrari2183]

But you said he saved his tyres better than Vettel and had good pace in his penultimate stint, and that his last stint was very impressive.
Yet you're saying he was "mediocre for a good deal of the race."

Seems a bit contradictory.

Lap 38 of 56 is about right time to start being fast. Yeah, that's how you win races and championships.

[Ferrari2183]

Alonso's mistake in bad conditions and only because Vettel was too slow.

Alonso had more grip, yeah, but it doesn't excuse him from driving into the back of someone. He should have been more vigilant. You don't win races on the first lap let alone turn 2. All his fault.

[Greig]

Whatever you say. This is just the usual issues with Massa which get swept under a rug around here. It's not him, it's the car when his teammate is out collecting podiums and wins.

I must now accept that a "not all that good car" miraculously became capable of front running pace because of this and that as if other teams and drivers don't have to contend with the same thing. We've seen this before with Massa but yet nobody is willing to acknowledge it.

Whatever you say, you are the complete expert and you know the performance of not only the Ferrari but every other car on the grid.

[Senna4Ever]

^^^ only people that speak italian, if thats even what he's speaking.

What are you talking about?
The interview which @Dino postet from Alonso?
What do you think which language this is?

[Ferrari2183]

Whatever you say, you are the complete expert and you know the performance of not only the Ferrari but every other car on the grid.

The laptimes are there for everybody to see. Don't laptimes determine performance in Formula 1?

[Suzie]

Lap 38 of 56 is about right time to start being fast. Yeah, that's how you win races and championships.

Way to sidestep my point.
I'm thinking you don't win either in the first lap as well but some drivers get a free pass I guess.

[Dino]

Ferrari2183
''Alonso had more grip, yeah, but it doesn't excuse him from driving into the back of someone. He should have been more vigilant. You don't win races on the first lap let alone turn 2. All his fault.''

Alonso was not expecting a 3 time world champion to go round that corner at 10 kmh.
He said tat Vettel nearly stopped at that point in the interview above.

[Greig]

The laptimes are there for everybody to see. Don't laptimes determine performance in Formula 1?

So where would Alonso have finished looking at your laptimes?

[Ferrari2183]

Way to sidestep my point.
I'm thinking you don't win either in the first lap as well but some drivers get a free pass I guess.

He was mediocre from lap 1 - 37 of a 56 lap race. That is a good deal of the race by anybodies standards. How is that contradictory?

[Ferrari2183]

So where would Alonso have finished looking at your laptimes?

Good grief. Forget about Alonso for a second and focus on Massa's race and whether you're willing to accept his excuses for being way off the pace for some 30 odd laps.

[Greig]

He was mediocre from lap 1 - 37 of a 56 lap race. That is a good deal of the race by anybodies standards. How is that contradictory?

How do you define Massa was mediocre, you have nothing to compare his laptimes too? So you are just guessing without any sort of baseline.

[Greig]

Good grief. Forget about Alonso for a second and focus on Massa's race and whether you're willing to accept his excuses for being way off the pace for some 30 odd laps.

Off the pace compared to who?

[Nero Horse]

What is up with some people here throwing stones and bashing our drivers with all kinds of ridiculous comments? This is not Alonso fan's forum and it's not Massa fan's forum, THIS is a Ferrari fan's forum and in here we should love and respect both drivers equally. Or have I missed something? Alonso fans and Massa fans are of course most welcome here, but could you please respect the other driver as well, without this incensive bashing? It's so disgusting to see people wanting Felipe to be replaced or accusing Alonso of doing something. Seriously, can't we support both drivers with an equal amount of respect here? Geesh!

[Ferrari2183]

Off the pace compared to who?

Off the pace of the front runners! Which he could easily match from lap 38 onwards...

This really isn't rocket science. How does a "not so good" car go from being so far off the pace to race winning pace?

[Greig]

Off the pace of the front runners! Which he could easily match from lap 38 onwards...

This really isn't rocket science. How does a "not so good" car go from being so far off the pace to race winning pace?

Like Lewis who was backing off to save fuel? like Webber who backed off the engine?

[Dino]

Off the pace of the front runners! Which he could easily match from lap 38 onwards...

This really isn't rocket science. How does a "not so good" car go from being so far off the pace to race winning pace?

Could it be that the track rubbered in again and track temps where approaching the ideal for Ferrari?

[sagi58]

Ermmmm so now Massa needs to qualify worse to impress you? Strange way of looking at things.

Again, you've misunderstood/misinterpreted what I've said! Starting on the front row, falling down to 10th and finishing 5th is NOT
as impressive as say starting 5th and finishing 2nd or even starting 10th and fighting up to 5th.

[mirafiori]

Look boys and girls we all need to calm down, we are ALL upset with today's race. We all expected more especially after a great quali by our drivers,we now move on to China,we have been told there is some improvements coming, finger crossed and keep the faith. We will win the next race. Forza Ferrari

[Greig]

Again, you've misunderstood/misinterpreted what I've said! Starting on the front row, falling down to 10th and finishing 5th is NOT
as impressive as say starting 5th and finishing 2nd or even starting 10th and fighting up to 5th.

The team said after qual that the rain had boosted their positions though so front row was probably not a true performance.

[sagi58]

I meant F1 fans in general, and my comment was not specific to TSN or this season's WDC battle.

I am glad you're "happy" for Massa

Out of respect, before I answered, I thought I'd better revisit what you posted earlier. It's true that your first comment
was fairly general; however, once you said "here", I assumed you meant on TSN. And, your comment in italics is
so very close to comments I've made "this" season, I assumed you were referring to the present. Just for your own
reference, I thought it would save you the trouble of finding your posting:

If Mark had done what Seb did today, I do wonder if people would have thought 'good on him'.
I also wonder what the reaction here would be if this happened at Ferrari between Felipe and Fernando - 'Felipe was impeding Fernando, he's the best bet for the WDC and it's better that he wins', perhaps?

p.s. Why use the quotation marks around the word happy, I know I didn't use them in my original post!

[DJMORIN]

HI TO ALL HEY LISTEN I AM GUTTED TO BUT SEEING WHAT HAPPENED WITH REDBULL TODAY THIS WILL HURT THEM BIG TIME MAYBE DERAIL THEM. VETTLE WILL BE VIEWED TOTALY DIFFERENT NOW AND FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.THE MEDIA WILL GO AFTER HIM AT EVERY RACE OR THE NEXT FEW. PRESSURE WILL MOUNT TO A KNEW LEVEL. REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO MICHEAL AND RUBINO NOT VERY HAPPY TIMES FOR US FOR A WHILE.PLUSS I JUST SAW SOMETHING THAT WEBBER IS THINKING OF STEPPING DOWN. WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND